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This Version of the American Dream is Over
on 9/8/2008 @ 9:30am
|so did anybody notice over the weekend that Fannie-Freddie are in nuclear meltdown?
kunstler weighs in...
so my friends, what is your coping technique? What I mean is, what are you doing to prevent yourself from completely freaking the fuck out?
Me? I'm starting to learn how to grow things.
by CA on 9/8/2008 @ 10:53am
|"what are you doing to prevent yourself from completely freaking the fuck out?"
Stop reading James Kunstler.
by NineInchNachos on 9/8/2008 @ 10:57am
|simple and elegant. i Like it! :)|
by NineInchNachos on 9/8/2008 @ 12:27pm
|stop the madness...
"ABCNews says that more and more people who are facing foreclosure are just buying cheaper homes and then just walking away from their original mortgage. It only works for people who can afford the down payment on a new home and carry both mortgages until they're in the new home, but for some people whose payments are about to balloon, it's the most attractive option out there right now."
by NineInchNachos on 9/8/2008 @ 2:18pm
|"The only ones theyâ€™re not going to pay back are the shareholders. All the people who own Freddie and Fannie stock, like people with these once-safe stocks in their 401k plans and mutual funds, will be left with investments worth nothing."
by Erik on 9/8/2008 @ 2:28pm
|Its a massive infusion of taxpayer money into the mortgage industry.
Oh well. Might as well enjoy it. Buy now!
by CA on 9/8/2008 @ 9:52pm
|All the buzz is that the American auto industry is next in line for cash infusions. Indeed, when will the madness stop?!?!|
by NineInchNachos on 9/8/2008 @ 10:47pm
|i'm changing my name to Chrysler|
by NineInchNachos on 9/15/2008 @ 3:22pm
|npr has an interesting new 'planet money' podcast for folks interested in figuring out what is happening with the life blood of america...|
by NineInchNachos on 9/15/2008 @ 3:42pm
So what do you do:
* Money and credit will get scarce - get out of debt or reduce debt if you can
* Reduce your expenses structurally - look at your cars - look at all the outgoings
* There will be no real return on conventional investments and it will take years for the adjustment to work its way through - so don't get sucked back in too soon and sell on every rally
* Your pension may not be a sure thing - think more about how you are going to spend the "Golden years"
* Invest in sure things such as reduce your use of energy - investments in cutting your oil use give you a cash tax free return
* Invest in you and yours - get real skills and real assets - learn how to do things that you now pay others to do - learn how to grow some food - do odd jobs - fix the car
* Invest in your friends and community - by working with them - for on our own we are not strong enough - volunteer for real work
* Pay more attention to your kids - better than paying school fees - do things with them
also of interest...
by dawntown on 9/15/2008 @ 4:11pm
|Buy a Winnebago and live in it|
by NineInchNachos on 9/15/2008 @ 4:22pm
|it's not all bad news...
so far little folks like you and me wont be affected by this American banking collapse (according to the above podcast)... also he says the current bush administration is only about 8% responsible for the blame. This is a humongous problem that transcends partisan politics.
by chrism39 on 9/15/2008 @ 7:23pm
|I like James Kunstler. Although his fictional account of the Long Emergency was not that good. I remember reading that a little over a year ago and my husband telling me to chill out, course he also predicted that the current Iraq war would mirror the last one and here we are five years later. When I read Long Emergency I did so with a worse case scenario, never gonna happen attitude, but the last year or so has changed my mind.
We are done, are reign as a the super power is over. Every country has it's time in power, our may be coming to a close.
by Erik on 9/15/2008 @ 7:55pm
|The Kunstler effect is certainly getting larger each month.|
He predicted that gasoline prices continue to rise, the powers that be will throw every last dollar at it to keep it alive.
Bizarrely, Pierce County is still considering furthering subsidizing even greater suburban expansion by building Cross Base highway.
This at a time of budget shortfalls and record construction and maintenance costs and disinvestment in Tacoma.
So long as the conversion of relatively cheap farmland in Pierce County is subsidized with suburban roads, we are going to continue to lose farmland leaving the cities of Pierce County eviscerated.
by NineInchNachos on 9/15/2008 @ 8:33pm
|all hope is not lost dear comrades, |
Join me for an emergency meeting of the Tacoma chapter of the ALASKAN INDEPENDENCE PARTY, together with Alaska's wealth of natural resources, size, and proximity to RUSSIA we can break away from the capitalist pigdog United States of America--i'm talking secession baby!
When McCain wins the corrupt office of presidency our own agent Palin (Commander of the Alaskan Continental Holy Revolution Guard Army) will quickly assume command and at once declare our long sought ALASKAN INDEPENDENCE!
I can finally return to the father land from my hellish exile in the lower 48.
by NineInchNachos on 9/15/2008 @ 8:36pm
|How I yearn for the taste of bloody moose flesh... |
by NineInchNachos on 9/15/2008 @ 8:38pm
|(Joe Vogler awaits us in Valhalla )
by chrism39 on 9/15/2008 @ 9:01pm
|Gerald Calente ( director of trends research institute) predicted the Asian financial crisis of 97, the fall of the soviet union and he predicted this would happen a year ago, he also said this would be economic times like no living person has seen.|
by Erik on 9/15/2008 @ 9:17pm
|Vogler arose as a political figure in 1973, where he began a petition calling for secession of Alaska from the United States. Alaska magazine reported that Vogler claimed to have gathered 25,000 signatures with 3 weeks.|
The Alaskan Independence Party quotes Vogler as stating "I'm an Alaskan, not an American. I've got no use for America or her damned institutions."
More insight into the GOP's vice presidential candidate's state:
The legal status of Alaska is the standing of Alaska as a political entity. Generally, the debate has primarily surrounded the legal status of Alaska relative to the United States of America. Alaska is usually considered to be a state under the sovereignty of the United States of America.
Nonetheless, U.S. sovereignty over Alaska has been disputed at times, most recently by a movement launched by Joe Vogler and the Alaskan Independence Party. In disputes over the legal status of Alaska, a key issue has been the tension between its de facto and de jure international standing.
by NineInchNachos on 9/15/2008 @ 9:33pm
|Vogler looks like a time-warped version of the traveller|
by CA on 9/15/2008 @ 9:50pm
|You might wanna close your WaMu accounts as soon as possible. Just sayin.......|
by NineInchNachos on 9/15/2008 @ 9:54pm
|Anybody know the status of Venture Bank?|
by chrism39 on 9/15/2008 @ 10:29pm
|The FCIC insures you for up to 100,000. the FDIC isn't going to fold, that wouldn't happen. Although I was feeling guilty about cashing in our washington mutual stocks which funded our vacation, now I'm patting myself on the back.|
by CA on 9/15/2008 @ 10:48pm
|Yes the FDIC covers you up to 100k. But if WaMu goes into receivership it might be a few days before you can get access to your money.|
by dawntown on 9/16/2008 @ 6:47am
|So, in conclusion, buy a Winnebago and live in it. Drive it to Alaska, and sometime soon when coastlines recede from "global warming", cross the strait into beautiful, sunny Russia|
by chrism39 on 9/16/2008 @ 7:52am
|what is receivership? Is that when another bank will takeover. We used to bank with bank of american but then we switched.|
by Mofo from the Hood on 9/16/2008 @ 8:00am
|Move to Alaska. Open a Winnebago dealership. Wait for the coastal waters to recede. When the Russian calvary arrives to estabish colonies of oil field workers, start figuring out a way to truck your glad bags full of Winnebago profits back to the lower 48; or maybe Tijuana.|
by dawntown on 9/16/2008 @ 8:12am
by NineInchNachos on 9/16/2008 @ 8:24am
|"If you read down to the last paragraph of this Federal Reserve press release you'll find a cryptic paragraph about changes to something called Section 23A of the Federal Reserve Act. The bottom line: The FDIC (which insures your bank deposits) could now be lending its stability to some of those dicey mortgage backed securities. If the FDIC runs out of money (and many worry its pool is too small) the government would likely step in."
by chrism39 on 9/16/2008 @ 9:15am
|That is horrible. When was it changed? Or has it always been that way?|
by CA on 9/16/2008 @ 10:56am
|Reveivership is when the FDIC comes in and takes over a failed bank.|
by NineInchNachos on 9/16/2008 @ 3:38pm
|Chrism, I listened to this and felt better about things...
keep cool yo.
by scout on 9/16/2008 @ 4:51pm
|OK RR, no more gloom & doom, amassing of guns, and heading for the compound - even the NPR gang say your theory is over the top.|
by NineInchNachos on 9/16/2008 @ 5:04pm
|that's what i'm sayin! good news. I'm just optimistic about my compound is all.|
by scout on 9/16/2008 @ 5:23pm
|It's always best to have a good compound ready|
by chrism39 on 9/16/2008 @ 7:20pm
|Well that did calm me a little. I guess there is a good thing that came out of this, John MCCain looked like an idiot when he said the economy is fundamentally sound. So thats a plus.|
by CA on 9/16/2008 @ 9:17pm
|The economy is fundamentally sound. We're not headed for another Great Depression. Thats what McCain meant.|
by chrism39 on 9/16/2008 @ 9:26pm
|Our economy is not fundamentally sound, if it were Lehman Brothers wouldn't have folded, Washington Mutual wouldn't be in trouble, Frannie May and Freddie Mac wouldn't have needed bailouts in addition to Behr Sterns ( sp). The Great Depression is not something that couldn't happen again. McCain is a idiot, he is another George Bush.|
by NineInchNachos on 9/16/2008 @ 9:29pm
the economy is Fun. Dementedly sound.
by CA on 9/16/2008 @ 9:30pm
|Thats Fannie Mae, not Frannie May.|
by chrism39 on 9/16/2008 @ 9:34pm
|oops, thats what happens when your brain is faster than your hands. I also forgot to mention the governments possible 80 or so billion to help out AIG|
by CA on 9/16/2008 @ 9:50pm
|I dont have my "head in the sand." I recognize that our economy is greatly distressed right now and that hundreds of thousands of Americans have lost their jobs recently. Times are not good right now and that sucks for all of us.
Financial institutions with exposure to the sub-prime mortgage debacle are taking the brunt of this firestorm, however, many other sectors of the economy are doing just fine. This, coupled with a strengthening US Dollar and commodity deflation, points to better times ahead.
Let me be clear. I'm not suggesting things will be back to normal any time soon. In fact they may get a little worse before they get better. But I dont belive we're headed for another Great Depression, and thats why I say our economy is fundamentally sound.
by chrism39 on 9/16/2008 @ 9:56pm
|Has the dollar really bounced back because as of yesterday I heard it had weakened even more.|
by CA on 9/16/2008 @ 10:05pm
|Currencies fluctuate from day to day, but the general trend for the US Dollar over the last month has been up. Europe and Japan are headed into recession and their central banks will have to cut interest rates, thus weakening their own currencies. This is the primary reason for a strengthening US Dollar.|
by scout on 9/16/2008 @ 10:25pm
|As I understand it investment banks and institutions are reaping what they sowed but traditional (savings) banks have actual wealth (money) behind them so are fundamentally sound. |
The economy is fundamentally sound. However people running around saying the sky is falling doesn't help - it did help exacerbate the Depression, when everyone freaked out and took their money out of the banks.
People that have lost money in stocks tied to the institutions involved have it tough - that money is gone. But it is doesn't mean that the rest of the economy is doomed - and Bush has nothing to do with it.
Many of Obama's campaign leader's headed up the mortgage banking institutions responsible for the sub-prime mortgage debacle - they were the CEO's of the companies that got rid of some of the restrictions that would have prevented this situation.
No one and everyone can be blamed - greed to a certain degree drives capitalism - makes people want to start their own businesses, invent a better widget.
by chrism39 on 9/16/2008 @ 10:34pm
|Good point scout.
by scout on 9/16/2008 @ 10:49pm
|"There's been less emphasis from the Obama campaign on the really dysfunctional role of the financial industry in the subprime mess," says Josh Bivens of the Economic Policy Institute. "Edwards and Clinton talk much more about regulation of the financial industry going forward, and to the extent that blame is placed, they tend to place it on the lenders for steering people into loans they couldn't afford."|
Obama's disappointing foreclosure plan stems from the centrist politics of his three chief economic advisers and his campaign's ties to Wall Street institutions opposed to increased financial regulation. David Cutler and Jeffrey Liebman are both Harvard economists who served in the Clinton Administration, and they work on market-oriented solutions to social welfare issues. Cutler advocates improving healthcare through financial incentives; Liebman, the partial privatization of Social Security.
Austan Goolsbee, an economist at the University of Chicago who calls himself a "centrist market economist," has been most directly involved with crafting Obama's subprime agenda. In a column last March in the New York Times, Goolsbee disputed whether "subprime lending was the leading cause of foreclosure problems," touted its benefits for credit-poor minority borrowers and warned that "regulators should be mindful of the potential downside in tightening [the mortgage market] too much." In October, no less a conservative luminary than George Will devoted a whole column in the Washington Post to saluting Goolsbee's "nuanced understanding" of traditional Democratic issues like globalization and income inequality and concluded that he "seems to be the sort of fellow--amiable, empirical, and reasonable--you would want at the elbow of a Democratic president, if such there must be."
Robert Pollin, an economist at the University of Massachussets, believes "these three advisers generally reflect Obama's very moderate economic program, similar to Clintonism." Wall Street apparently has come to a similar conclusion. Obama had received nearly $10 million in contributions from the finance, insurance and real estate sector through October, and he's second among presidential candidates of either party in money raised from commercial banks, trailing only Clinton. Goldman Sachs, which made $6 billion from devalued mortgage securities in the first nine months of 2007, is Obama's top contributor. When asked if Obama would hold these financial institutions accountable for losses incurred by homeowners and investors, his campaign refused to comment.
(Excerpted from: The Nation - a weekly United States periodical devoted to politics and culture, self-described as "the flagship of the left." Founded on July 6, 1865 at the start of Reconstruction as a supporter of the victorious North in the American Civil War, it is the oldest continuously published weekly magazine in the US. It is published by the Nation Company, L.P. at 33 Irving Place, New York City.) source - Wikipedia
by NineInchNachos on 9/17/2008 @ 9:32am
|maybe this will help..
the fundamentals of reality are still painfully sound.
by NineInchNachos on 9/17/2008 @ 9:33am
|large friendly letters: DON'T PANIC |
we can safely blame team Bush for these things:
* erosion of civil liberties
* attacking countries without provocation (bush doctrine)
* massive debt/spending... ironic from somebody labeling himself a conservative
* loss of revenue (tax cuts)
however the fucked economy is an accumulation of may administrations that transcends party lines.
by NineInchNachos on 9/17/2008 @ 9:55am
|anyhow... here are some good reads.
Who Can I Blame?
Free Market Hypocrisy?
tired of the partisan snipping. cant we all just get along?
by NineInchNachos on 9/24/2008 @ 9:06pm
|"The point is this is one of the most important irrevokable economic decisions we will ever make. Let's make it in a state of panic."
â€” Stephen Colbert
"The fox is guarding the hen house."
â€” A heckler mocking Treasury secretary Henry Paulson
Senator Bunning: How long were you CEO of Goldman Sachs?
Audience: (Laughter and applause from a Code Pink supporter skeptical of Secretary Paulson.)
Code Pink woman: And what's your net worth?
Senator Bunning: I don't need help from the audience, I can ask the questions on my own...
"I'm not going to fire you; you can still be called Congress. But you don't have any power."
â€” Jon Macey, Yale Law School professor and deputy dean, providing an allegory for Secretary Paulson's proposal
"As of now we [journalists] are, as a group, behaving just as we did the
last two times the administration sought to rush through a hastily
thought out, ill-conceived plan. Why in the world are we being so
gullible and naive?"
â€” Former New York Times reporter David Cay Johnston
"What the proposal actually did...was explicitly rule out any oversight, plus grant immunity from future review... [I]f Paulson can't be honest about what he himself sent to Congress... there is no reason to trust him on anything related to his bailout plan."
â€” Paul Krugman
"If you think the Bailout of All Bailouts...won't saddle American taxpayers with billions, if not trillions, of risky obligations, you don't know politics... Never before in the history of American capitalism has so much been asked of so many for...so few."
â€” Robert Reich, former Secretary of Labor
"We are talking about ten thousand dollars per household, and that money
cannot simply go into a black hole of bad debt."
â€” John McCain
"Americans can no longer trust the economic information they are getting from this Administration... Secretary Paulson's market predictions have been consistently wrong in the last year."
â€” Republican Senator Jim DeMint
"Normally, this is a process that would take months â€” years."
Instead, the law is being worked out, live on television, over the course of a few days.
â€” NPR, quoting the chief lobbyist for the Financial Services Roundtable, Scott Talbott
"This is scare tactics to try to do something that's in the private but not the public interest. It's terrible."
â€” Allan Meltzer, former economic adviser to President Reagan
and Carnegie Mellon professor of political economy, quoted in the New York Times
"Watching Washington rush to throw taxpayer money at Wall Street has been sobering and a little frightening."
â€” Newt Gingrich
"Many economists argue that taxpayers ought to get more than avoidance of the apocalypse for their dollars: they ought to get an ownership stake in the companies on the receiving end."
â€” New York Times front-page analysis by reporter Peter S. Goodman
"Seriously, is there anybody out there willing to write George Bush a blank check?"
â€” Democratic Activist Christine Pelosi
"No 'cash for trash.'"
â€” Dennis Kucinich, proposing Americans should also take partial ownership of any institutions receiving bailout money.
I think it's embarrassing to the United States of America. There is a lot of blame to go around."
â€” Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson
"For anybody out there living in cave, let me just say this. Congratulations. You've apparently made the soundest real estate investment possible."
â€” Jon Stewart
by Dennis on 4/1/2009 @ 6:56am
|Seems like Jon Stewart is right as always. :)|
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