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What Goes on FeedTacoma?
 by KevinFreitas on 2/5/2008 @ 6:48am |
Erik B and I have been emailing the last couple days about what should show on the FeedTacoma homepage. Once in a while I'll ask a contributor to rethink whether a post should show on the FT homepage but that's not a business I should be in. I'd like the FeedTacoma community to help guide this website toward meaning the most to them. Since the volumes of content here come from the power of dozens of contributors so too should ideas of how the site is run come from them and the community of folks that enjoy it everyday. I want to open this discussion up to everyone. Here are some questions I'll put out there for commenting or you're welcome to email me if you want to keep your opinions private:
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 by NineInchNachos on 2/5/2008 @ 12:28pm | I think we're holding the i.feed blogs to a higher standard than other external blogs... for example the EriK H, Spew, Grit City, Thrice AM blogs are all-inclusive with the tacoma label. You could argue that they are the voice of tacoma commenting on federal level matters which could be just as valuable as somebody with no specific voice commenting on what bagel they ate at what tacoma drive through window.
No man alone should bare the burden of deciding who stays and who gets left behind. Perhaps we should go with a FLAGS system like craigslist does. and reserve taking action for the most grievous of offenders (people selling boner pills, payday loans). - - - - - -------------------- - - - - - - -- also I'd like to be able to mark favorites. also in searching how about adding links for : "most favored", "most viewed", "most commented", "most recent" |
 by zastica on 2/5/2008 @ 12:59pm | I don't think that we need moderation... I like things the way they are. If I don't want to read something, I don't have to. I'd rather have the option to read a lot of things, and pick which I'm interested in, than only get a few options.
If there's hundreds of posts, maybe better filtering, but I don't think stuff needs tweaking yet. |
 by Angela on 2/5/2008 @ 1:07pm | I agree with zastica. I've found myself reading entries I might not normally just because the name catches my eye or the first couple of lines which show pique my interest in reading more. |
 by Erik on 2/5/2008 @ 1:55pm | Erik B and I have been emailing the last couple days about what should show on the FeedTacoma homepage. Once in a while I'll ask a contributor to rethink whether a post should show on the FT homepage but that's not a business I should be in.
Tacoma Urbanist appears to be the second posting censored on Feed Tacoma only after the censor of a Tacomic (which was later published). The infraction was from my latest post: Cast Your Presidential Ballot Monday. It Still Matters. It was a post of my voting in Tacoma. I suppose I should wear the infraction like a badge of honor. Perhaps that shows that the Urbanist is "edgy." Kevin's kind of on new terrain so I suppose we need to be patient. Yet, bloggers are not a patient bunch. Kevin's put Feed Tacoma together and its his world, we are just posting in it. However, if Feed Tacoma is going to have a significant place in Tacoma, it will be in the "open source" end of the blogosphere. Exit 133 and the TNT are already doing well with the more structured formats. Erik Emery posted something on the campaign with far less local content that my allegedly offending one: Monday, February 04, 2008 WA may be big for Obama If the SurveyUSA poll is true, it's a huge difference: among Democrats who say they will caucus, Obama has a 22 point lead over Clinton. This might be telling for other races tomorrow ... here's hopin'. From the Slog. Labels: Obama, Politics, Tacoma However, the post is made by a known local Mr. Emery and is on a subject which affects Tacoma. I certainly think it should be part of Feed Tacoma. In fact anyone doing anything (PG rated) in the city limits of Tacoma is local content IMO. National politics is BIG in Tacoma. Censoring If there's hundreds of posts, maybe better filtering, but I don't think stuff needs tweaking yet. I agree. Unless there is a spam problem, the solution is worse that the problem. Anyone writing about anything while in Tacoma is hard core local Tacoma content IMO. Unless someone is spamming over and over again or it is x rated, the content has local value. Also, who wants to spend time participating in a conversation if they feel like their post may be deleted or taken off at the whim of a moderator? That's the non-virtual equivalant for telling someone to shut up. It does not go over very well. If there are too many posts, the first ones I would consider eliminating are commercial feeds. Google already handles these well and they add little. Perhaps we should go with a FLAGS system like craigslist does. and reserve taking action for the most grievous of offenders . Good idea. I have heard a dozen stories of people having their comments "censored" in one way or another. I can tell you they absolutely loath it. Ultimately, Kevin is going to have to decide what kind of entity Feed Tacoma wishes to be, he owns the url, an open source Tacoma community one or a highly structured one like the TNT or somewhere in between. It doesn't mean one is good or bad. However, people are going to act differently and change their participation based on how it operates. I think we're holding the i.feed blogs to a higher standard than other external blogs... Almost all of the content providers in Feed Tacoma are not on i.feed blogs. If anyone is going to be lured into putting content on these blogs, they can't feel like the rug is going to be yanked out under them. Otherwise, they won't waste there time. Right now, most of them are just people with text posts (nothing wrong with that). The i feed blogs have the potential to add content to feed Tacoma like Tacomic. Otherwise, Feed Tacoma is only going to be a reader for other blogs and a forum which someone else could set up w/o too much difficulty pretty fast. (I have perhaps said too much. But please bear in mind I have not posted on the Urbanist for 3 days now so there is some pent up posts.) |
 by Erik Hanberg on 2/5/2008 @ 2:09pm | As Erik points out, my post was certainly on the line of Tacoma-related.
But I feel it's important to mention that I choose tags for easy of navigation of my site unrelated to FeedTacoma. I tagged that post Tacoma because I thought it was relevant to Tacoma on my site. I am certainly conscious that a "Tacoma" tag publishes it here, but I am primarily thinking about how my site interally works first. The majority of the posts I write I do not tag with Tacoma, and sometimes those that are on the line I tag and sometimes not ... ... that said I think any blogger who has Tacoma-related content should be able to post it. There does seem to be a fair number of posts that don't have a lot to do with Tacoma. Mine maybe didn't last night. Spew's live blogging of the Superbowl wasn't exactly relevant to Tacoma. Sparkrobot had a couple posts last week that were unrelated to Tacoma that might be more aptly tagged "what Tacoma is interested in." I'm not saying I have a good answer for this, but somewhere there is a difference between "about Tacoma" and "what Tacomans are interested in (Superbowl, etc)." I tend to think FeedTacoma would be best by focusing on the "About Tacoma" part, but again ... I've got no answers here. |
by NineInchNachos on 2/5/2008 @ 2:46pm | How do you determine where the (Wo)Man stops and where Tacoma begins? Is there a final solution? |
 by jenyum on 2/5/2008 @ 2:48pm | I didn't realize this was about national politics in i.feed blogs. (Or isn't it? These conversations are so hard because you have to sort of guess what it's all about if you don't already know.)
I guess I don't see why it would be necessary or desirable to censor them. After all, the trib endorsing Obama is Tacoma news, yes? Eric B. "endorsing" Obama is not? We've been talking to (and at) each other for a year (some for longer) now, and I like reading where people are at on the national political spectrum, if they're inclined to tell me. Anyone who wants to share with the rest of the class is welcome to, from my point of view. |
 by droid116 on 2/5/2008 @ 2:50pm | Framing it as an ease of use question helps. Will there be a point where so many posts come through that the main page becomes unwieldy? I think that is possible over time. Quite a few blogs have started up over the last year and I doubt it will slow down significantly.
I like the idea of providing additional tag elements like TacomaArts, or TacomaSports, or TacomaPolitics. Then FeedTacoma could eventually self sort into categories of interest. They could all still show on the home page but as new posts move them down the page, they could also be accessed in their corresponding relevant section. Once set up it should run itself. Anything that is not automatic will require some editorial oversight which I am imagining is what you DO NOT want to have to exert, correct? |
by KevinFreitas on 2/5/2008 @ 2:53pm | Thanks for the feedback everyone! You can see how this would be such a quandary for me. Though Erik B. pointed out that this is "my" site I don't want it ever to feel that way. I try to be as absolutely hands-off as possible 1) because I don't enjoy ever feeling like a thought police officer and 2) let's face it, this is a volunteer project and that's time I simply don't have. The beauty is that the site just works in a 99% hands-off way. It's that 1% of the time that I want to figure out.
I tend to gravitate toward the "flag this" option to allow users to report spam posts. Likewise, I'm formulating some options to allow folks to give a thumbs up/down to any post and allow viewers to sort by what people liked. Erik Emery makes a good point regarding "about Tacoma" and "interests Tacoman's". I think the site can and does do both. I think it accels in the "about Tacoma" but the i.feed blogs open the site up to more from folks that might be of interest to Tacoman's. Should the "interests Tacoman's" stuff show on the homepage? Should categorization come into play so people can easily thumb through different kinds of content like they would sections of a newspaper? Thanks again -- this is great food for thought! |
by KevinFreitas on 2/5/2008 @ 2:56pm | I didn't realize this was about national politics in i.feed blogs.
It's not at all Jen. I like Obama. See? It's more general than that. It's just me trying to avoid me ever having to censor or editorialize the great content and hard work that the contributors to FeedTacoma put forth. |
by jenyum on 2/5/2008 @ 3:19pm | Can we have an option not to see the ratings? I have a little, um, obsession problem with stuff like that.
I think I'd like to not be able to see them unless I want to. |
by Angela on 2/5/2008 @ 3:21pm | I think the site should be both "about Tacoma" and "interests Tacoman's". The site tagline is "A community resource by people who live and love Tacoma". I want to know about the people as much as what's going on. It's a guide for what matters to Tacoma, citizens and city.
I wouldn't want "categorization ...so people can easily thumb through different kinds of content like they would sections of a newspaper?". There are parts of the paper I skip completely but, as I said previously, the way FT is currently formatted I find myself reading entries I might never read were they categorized and segregated. |
by NineInchNachos on 2/5/2008 @ 3:51pm | i agree. tacoma is nothing without the people. the people make Tacoma the place to be. without the people our city is just another superfund site. |
 by beerandhotdogs on 2/5/2008 @ 3:52pm | I think Kevin should rule supreme over this however he sees fit, since he built this playground. I just think he should do it while wearing a horned helmet and weilding a battle axe engraved with a Tacoma Rockets and Tacoma Sabrecats logo.
I like it just the way it is. Catergorization will bury stuff like in most forums that have 30,417 choices. -Chris |
 by izenmania on 2/5/2008 @ 4:34pm | Maybe if we get to the point where there are a couple hundred posts per day. But unless you're getting people coming to you saying "that post is not about Tacoma" then I don't think there is a need to really filter at this point. Most people, including me, self-filter by using a Tacoma keyword in their feed. The occasional editorial about non-Tacoma politics is not ruining anyone's experience. |
 by intacoma on 2/5/2008 @ 4:40pm | Hanbergs just sad the Giants won ;)
Anything related to Tacoma goes, censoring/filtering should only be towards non tacoma posts |
by NineInchNachos on 2/5/2008 @ 4:57pm | thats just it how do you determine what is "Not about Tacoma" ? it is not as clear cut as you would imagine. |
by NineInchNachos on 2/5/2008 @ 4:58pm | are posts about the city of ruston a "non tacoma" post?
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by Erik on 2/5/2008 @ 5:10pm | are posts about the city of ruston a "non tacoma" post?
Perhaps those are allowed in as a sign of Kevin's prediction as to the future fate of Ruston. :) |
 by jcbetty on 2/5/2008 @ 6:01pm | I think for me the main strength of the feed is how, on a daily basis, I can look and see a variety of different topics, new voices, familiar "faces" and seemingly disparate topics-- all with a sense of ? I dunno, some sort of 253 commonality that makes the feed feel like an open, inviting community. I think that a strict regimentation towards "Tacoma"-ness could eventually create a stale, dull environment, because all of us in Tacoma are made up of so much more than Tacoma, and the differences, as much as the similarities, are what make the whole thing cool. --a couple of for-instances that have recently made me smile: KFrei is a snowboarder. Ohmigod, I squeal, so am I! --or, recently, I posted a blog about a trip south, to Lakewood (which used to be Tacoma) and found a really engaging conversation develop, surrounding other Lakewoodites. SO, let's say we exclude all posts about personal interests outside Tacoma? How would I know about others sharing my political convictions, others sharing my television viewing tastes, or others sharing my background in locality at a distinct moment in time? Having said all of that, I do also think that there needs to be a line of distinction, about what makes a "FeedTacoma" post. I don't know specifically where that line of distinction lies --BUT-- I think Nine Inch Nachos, in all his virile, baby-making wisdom, brings up fine points about how those lines can be drawn-- via community uproar, via popularity-ish means (most frequently read, hot topics, most recent etc) and via numeric limits-- like, say, two a day per poster/blogger, so as not to create a "dominant" voice just because Joe Schmoe blogs 72 entries per day and they all bear the tag "TACOMA!" I think, when the feed becomes more popular than the Beatles, then the filter mechanisms can be reconsidered, but for now, I think feedtacoma is awesome-- it allows me to get a sense of the opinions, daily experiences and viewpoints of those I share a city with, without limiting me to, like, the voices of 5 people. |
by jcbetty on 2/5/2008 @ 6:05pm | Oh. and, for the record, I give Ruston 5 years, MAX, before they become "Tacoma." Just as Lakewood and UP seceeded from the T-Town Union, I believe Ruston will cave, and BECOME T-Town. And all will win. or not. ;) |
by NineInchNachos on 2/5/2008 @ 6:40pm | JCBetty is absolute right!
NiN is a virile, baby-making wisdom with fine points! |
by jcbetty on 2/5/2008 @ 6:51pm | aaak. Wow, talk about "out of context," NiN!! -- unless you do have "fine points" -- in which case, do I congratulate, or give condolences to Darcy?? ;) (here I thought you'd say I was right about Ruston.) |
by NineInchNachos on 2/5/2008 @ 7:18pm | eegen ayrtem køsønøm |
by jcbetty on 2/5/2008 @ 8:05pm | --off topic-- you make me laugh! |
 by AP on 2/5/2008 @ 9:54pm | kayrem nem tudok jol magyarul
I like the Feed the way it is until further need for infrastructure presents itself. For now, the inmates run the asylum and that's okay. |
by jcbetty on 2/6/2008 @ 8:36am | Oh, my, god (Hat, jo istenem!) --AP-- Ki vagy? Hogy hogy tudsz Magyarul irni? --oh wait, it's the computer age, duh.
yup, feed is good as is, my thoughts, too :) |
 by ensie on 2/6/2008 @ 10:50am | Erik, Your post was never censored. You were merely asked to remove the "Tacoma" tag from it because the post wasn't about Tacoma and didn't belong on the front page of Feed Tacoma. Your post remained in place, on your blog the entire time, and was listed in the sidebar on the main page of Feed Tacoma under "Recent Chatter". You've enjoyed a considerable amount of attention since starting your blog on Feed Tacoma, getting a large number of comments since you began blogging, and to have a post that doesn't get that amount of attention isn't as fun. Having a post on the main page of Feed Tacoma is a privilege, not a right, and Kevin has every right to ask you to remove a "Tacoma" tag when an item is not about Tacoma. By attempting to move this conversation to your own blog, you've shown that you would prefer to continue to receive attention instead of allowing the conversation to continue to a place that is more appropriate - the forums. Feed Tacoma's main page has always been a place for blog posts specifically about Tacoma, which also includes the interests of Tacomans. The forums allow for additional posts relating to Tacoma, for Tacomans, etc. The main page has been self-policed relatively well for a long time, however, as more and more blogs are added to Feed Tacoma, occasionally posts that are not about Tacoma will creep in. It's fair for Kevin to lay some basic ground rules and enforce them as needed without getting called out as a censor. If you want to find other topics to discuss outside of Tacoma, that's what a search engine is for. |
by AP on 2/6/2008 @ 10:54am | Uh oh... yo no hablo Hungarian... |
by NineInchNachos on 2/6/2008 @ 11:03am | thats the whole point ensie. who ultimately decides what is about tacoma when "Tacoma" is an abstract idea invented by flawed human beings.
are we to apply the congressional pornography standard? "I'll know it when I see it?" |
by NineInchNachos on 2/6/2008 @ 11:04am | if dale chihuly writes an article about how he clipped his toe nails is that an article 'about tacoma' ? I know some folks would consider it to be. and some folks would not. there is our problem. |
by ensie on 2/6/2008 @ 11:20am | I think people know when they are writing about Tacoma or not. Or when they are just trolling for comments and/or hits. We've seen it in the posts that have gone up on the main page so far. People have erred on the side of caution until now. But when you are talking about a post that doesn't mention Tacoma, nor does it have anything to do with Tacoma, you're starting to push limits.
Now that this discussion is going on, we can start to define it further. I suppose the more I think about it, the more I'm leaning in the direction of reader flagging, which would keep Kevin from having to police things, and would leave readers in control. |
by AP on 2/6/2008 @ 11:22am | I do like the idea of putting a limit on how many blog entries someone can throw up here on a given day. 2 per day seems like plenty from any one contributor. |
by NineInchNachos on 2/6/2008 @ 11:34am | (ensie PWND via Socratic method)
ap: would you limit the growth of your bank accounts? |
by ensie on 2/6/2008 @ 11:42am | Not exactly NIN. It's still Kevin who has the ultimate authority to pull posts when they are flagged. I know he doesn't like to do the actual policing, so it would keep him from having to do that work, and from creating situations like the one with Erik B. |
by Erik on 2/6/2008 @ 11:43am | ..."Tacoma" is an abstract idea invented by flawed human beings.
True. Also, in the end, its all on Feed Tacoma. Its just like spending money in another area of the casino. The house makes money either way. |
by AP on 2/6/2008 @ 11:48am | RR: Heavens no. If this is truly about capitalism, then let it grow without limits!
When I mentioned the 2-blog-post-limit, I should have clarified that this would be in the future, if any regulation should become necessary. As I stated earlier, regulation of the Feed is not an issue for me currently. |
by jenyum on 2/6/2008 @ 12:08pm | I switched the topic for my Caucus post, which pulls it out of the feed. This is problematic, though, for sites off of i.feed.tacoma, since their particular mechanism for putting a post into the feed might also put it other places, or relate to the internal workings of their site. That particular topic also feeds to Citizen Rain now, and that particular post is of interest state wide, so I'd have liked to have kept it where it was. (Not that anyone asked me to do this, but I'm feeling paranoid now.) Here's a suggestion: can we have a way for a feed contributor to remove individual posts from their outside blogs from the feed, so that it will only make this change on feedtacoma? Link their blog to their account and provide one of those little x buttons. Otherwise, this is giving me a headache. It's going to be a headache anyway, to have to overthink this every time, but at least then said overthinking would be limited to thinking about Feedtacoma. |
by NineInchNachos on 2/6/2008 @ 12:19pm | Jenyum is describing the "Chilling Effects" whenever authoritarian governments make a power move. however we as freethinking individuals have 'powermoves' of our own: Refuse to be Afraid & post with reckless abandon. Hack your "Tacoman" Context(s). |
by NineInchNachos on 2/6/2008 @ 12:22pm | I cant speak for anyone else, but my goal is to confuse Kevin to the point of him not knowing 'about tacoma' from a bowl shaped lump of rock (can you tell I have no geology degree?) sticking to business end of commencement bay. all due respect of course :) |
by ensie on 2/6/2008 @ 12:23pm | Considering the fact that this has never been an issue before, why would everyone freak out and need to start pulling posts and overthinking? I think this is exactly what Kevin doesn't want - people worrying that their posts are inappropriate and shouldn't be up on Feed Tacoma. Continue to put your posts up. Continue to post things you think are Tacoma related. If something is wildly inappropriate, he'll let you know for the time being until there is another control in place. If not, consider it fine and dandy. Don't worry about it! |
by AP on 2/6/2008 @ 12:29pm | I feel ya, ensie. |
by NineInchNachos on 2/6/2008 @ 12:34pm | agreed. Here's the thing... it hasn't been an issue because the people affected kept silent. Now that we are talking about it, the rest of the community knows--It has happened. It has happened to me. It is happening now. Some day it might happen to you. |
by ensie on 2/6/2008 @ 12:49pm | Actually, you haven't exactly kept silent. It was brought up when it happened to you, RR, and the original version of your Tacomic was posted on Feed Tacoma. As I discussed earlier, Erik's post was never censored. It remained fully in place for all to view on his blog. Just like any post that I write that doesn't reference or relate to Tacoma goes up on my own site, but doesn't get top billing on Feed Tacoma. Kevin brought up this topic himself, as he is uncomfortable with what happened. He wanted to start the dialog about how to deal with the issue. You can be damn sure if it ever happens to me, I'll be the first one to speak up about it. |
by AP on 2/6/2008 @ 12:57pm | Should your post not make it to the home page of the Feed, what exactly have you lost?
I agree with whoever said it's a privilege not a right to be published on the Feed homepage. Your post should be written for you and your blog as much as it is written for the Feed. If it's not worth having on just your blog, then it's probably not worth being on the Feed homepage. |
by NineInchNachos on 2/6/2008 @ 1:04pm | yes. grass roots agitation is the only hope. |
by Erik on 2/6/2008 @ 1:43pm | It has happened to me. It is happening now. Some day it might happen to you.
I hereby nominate RR Anderson as the official Feed Tacoma censor or softer labeled "content guideline helper" for the reason he dispises it so much. (There's a Plato quote in there somewhere). |
by NineInchNachos on 2/6/2008 @ 1:48pm | BTW Mr. Scott "Man on the Street" Fontain's Nipples was actually a carefully choreographed media virus designed to penetrate the corporate, psychic defenses of the Tacoma News Tribune (to the envy of other commercial marketing firms like Jay Ray and Lusty George). ho ha. |
by ensie on 2/6/2008 @ 1:57pm | Well said AP. To take it a step further, your post should be written for yourself and your blog, and *not* specifically for the Feed. The Feed is there to develop community and as a resource, not to drive stats. With that in mind, having your post on the main page of the Feed does get you a certain amount of visibility and click-throughs. It gets you readers that you might not have had. It gets one validation outside sources - something a lot of bloggers are looking for, attention one may not get otherwise. Being included on the main page of the Feed also offers a sense of community and inclusiveness. The feeling that as an individual blogger you are part of something greater. That in Tacoma we are a powerful force for good and change. As bloggers we've helped local business, promoted local arts, questioned Tacoma politics, shown the greater world that Tacoma is a good place, and continue to do what we can to make Tacoma a better place to live and work. |
by ensie on 2/6/2008 @ 1:58pm | That was sappier than I expected it to be. |
by Erik on 2/6/2008 @ 2:03pm |  |
by Aroma on 2/6/2008 @ 2:17pm | Man, people in Seattle would never do this much pointless navel-gazing. |
by ensie on 2/6/2008 @ 2:54pm | Oh ha-ha. |
by jenyum on 2/6/2008 @ 3:21pm | People in Seattle tend to be very nasty commenters, too, so I'm down with our excessive attempts to nice our way around these issues.
I'm being paranoid. Went to school, graded some first grader's papers. Feeling refreshed now. 
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