Forum Home  |  What's Going On  |  Events

Ethnic Fest 2010...Tacoma's Experiment in Racial Profiling

by fredo
on 7/21/2010 @ 12:22pm
Tacomans don't like to hear about other communities using racial profiling for law enforcement purposes, but now we've figured out a way to sort out the different racial groups for the purpose of entertainment. This makes attempts to distinguish the different races much more palatable. Come and see for yourself this Saturday and Sunday at Wright Park.

by Nick on 7/21/2010 @ 12:48pm
I don't see what ethnic fest has to do with racial profiling....

As defined by:

The Arizona Attorney General: "Use by law enforcement personnel of an individual’s race or ethnicity as a factor in articulating reasonable suspicion to stop, question or arrest an individual, unless race or ethnicity is part of an identifying description of a specific suspect for a specific crime."

US Department of Justice: "Any police-initiated action that relies on the race, ethnicity, or national origin rather than the behavior of an individual or information that leads the police to a particular individual who has been identified as being, or having been, engaged in criminal activity."

More on Wikipedia:

by NineInchNachos on 7/21/2010 @ 12:48pm
Although I am horrified by your message, you should take pictures!

by fredo on 7/21/2010 @ 1:31pm
pro·fil·ing (prō′fīl′iŋ)


the practice or method of preparing a set of characteristics belonging to a certain class or group of people or things by which to identify individuals as belonging to such a class or group

That's an exact definition of what will be on display at Ethnic Fest.

by Nick on 7/21/2010 @ 1:47pm
Again, where's the *racial* profiling? Ethnic fest is about culture not race.

by fredo on 7/21/2010 @ 1:55pm
"Ethnic fest is about culture not race."

If any of these groups are on stage then the show is being organized by race:

American Indians
Native Hawaiian

According the US Census Bureau, these are all distinct races.

by Maria on 7/21/2010 @ 4:03pm
Good thing FeedTacoma doesn't do profiling for idiocy...

Pronunciation: ˈi-dē-ə-sē

1 usually offensive : extreme mental retardation
2 something notably stupid or foolish

by Nick on 7/21/2010 @ 4:07pm
A collection of genetic attributes don't develop traditions, create art, or develop unique cuisine. Cultures do. It has nothing to do with race.

There is certainly a correlation between race and culture, but they are not one in the same.

by fredo on 7/21/2010 @ 4:14pm
Maria, you seem to have made on judgement on me

...yet you didn't refute my theory.

Clearly the city is grouping people by races for the purpose of entertainment. Claiming that such groupings are for ethnic purposes and not racial purposes seems to be a distinction without a difference. If the Arizona police pulled people over based on their ethnicity rather than their race would that be OK?

by seejane on 7/21/2010 @ 4:27pm
You forgot the Irish/Celtic program... I bet they're lily white!

by NineInchNachos on 7/21/2010 @ 4:34pm
fredo needs to take some sensitivity classes or something. yiesh!

by fredo on 7/21/2010 @ 5:05pm
Interesting that so many people who claim to be open minded exhibit so much paranoia when certain terms are introduced into a discussion.

Why is it OK to be proud of your ethnicity but not proud of your racial background? If you saw a wonderful program put on by some Chinese acrobats and at the conclusion of the program the MC asked the audience to "give it up for these fine young representatives of the Chinese race" would it somehow diminish your enjoyment of the program? If you answer yes, that's really quite sad.

by debivans on 7/21/2010 @ 5:53pm
This is why we need space aliens to invade or at least show up and scare the crap out of us. We would all be humans or earthlings or terrans real quick.

by Crenshaw Sepulveda on 7/21/2010 @ 6:26pm
"The universe is vast, containing myriads of stars, many of them not unlike our Sun. Many of these stars are likely to have planets circling around them. A fair fraction of these planets will have liquid water on their surface and a gaseous atmosphere. The energy pouring down from a star will cause the synthesis of organic compounds, turning the ocean into a thin, warm soup. These chemicals will join each other to produce a self-reproducing system. The simplest living things will multiply, evolve by natural selection and become more complicated till eventually active, thinking creatures will emerge. Civilization, science, and technology will follow. Then, yearning for fresh worlds, they will travel to neighboring planets, and later to planets of nearby stars. Eventually they should spread out all over the Galaxy. These highly exceptional and talented people could hardly overlook such a beautiful place as our Earth. - "And so, " - Fermi came to his overwhelming question, - "if all this has been happening, they should have arrived here by now, so where are they ? " - It was Leo Szilard, a man with an impish sense of humor, who supplied the perfect reply to Fermi's rethoric: - "They are among us," - he said, - "but they call themselves Hungarians. ""

by KevinFreitas on 7/21/2010 @ 6:53pm
@debivans: Here here!

@Crenshaw: Haha -- great payoff. Thanks for the chuckle!

by seejane on 7/21/2010 @ 8:13pm
We are only the temporary custodians of the particles that make us what we are!

by fredo on 7/21/2010 @ 8:47pm
Yes Seejane! Let's celebrate our wonderful races! Why is there any shame attached to being a member of one or more races? I don't get it.

by ixia on 7/22/2010 @ 9:05am
Does that mean fredo is organizing a white power festival at the park? Or just another tea party?

by tacoma1 on 7/22/2010 @ 9:07am
White Power, Tea Party, whats the difference?

by ixia on 7/22/2010 @ 9:13am
tea instead of beer?

by seejane on 7/22/2010 @ 10:40am
A race is variety of a species... kind of like a tabby cat or a calico cat.
Ethnicity refers to selected cultural and sometimes physical characteristics used to classify people into groups considered to be significantly different from others. Think house cats v. feral cats.

We're not celebrating races, we're celebrating ethnicity, our different cultural heritages.

by Altered Chords on 7/22/2010 @ 11:07am
Race: white
Ethnicity: Ukrainian.

The Ethnic Fest may have a group of Ukrainiane dancers but will not have a group of "white" dancers.

Race: Asian
Ethnicity: Japanese.

The Ethnic Fest may have a group of Japanese singers but will not have a group of "Asian" singers.

Does this help to clarify the difference between race and ethnicity as it pertains to this specific event?

by fredo on 7/22/2010 @ 12:12pm
"Ethnicity: Japanese" altered chords

Japanese is also a race. Please consult Wikipedia's discussion the US Census Bureau's classifications. If there is a group of Japanese singers you will be looking at both an ethnicity and a race.

by fredo on 7/22/2010 @ 1:23pm
The United Negro College Fund

Does that non profit organization refer to an ethnicity or a race?

by Altered Chords on 7/22/2010 @ 1:54pm
In some circumstances race and ethnicity are the same. For marketing purposes, it would be much to cumbersome to call this festival: "Ethnic and in some cases Ethnic and Racial Fest"

Re: your question about UNCF - I am at work and can not invest the time in researching their bylaws.

I've been to the ethnic fest and never felt as though it was divisive.

by fredo on 7/22/2010 @ 2:10pm
"I've been to the ethnic fest and never felt as though it was divisive." altered chords.

And I'm not encouraging divisiveness, I'm only encouraging a discussion of race and ethnicity. Clearly, if some commenters are uncomfortable with the topic, if they think the topic is "idiotic", or they think people who would want to discuss the topic are "insensitive" then those people may wish to abandon the thread. I am completely at peace with my race and my ethnicity and am happy to discuss either.

P.S. One shouldn't have to read some by laws to determine if an organization named the "UNITED NEGRO COLLEGE FUND" refers to a race or an ethnicity.

by fredo on 7/22/2010 @ 2:24pm
"it would be much to cumbersome to call this festival: "Ethnic and in some cases Ethnic and Racial Fest" altered chords.

thats brilliant LOL. Maybe it would be more cumbersome but it would be less dishonest. Just to make sure no one could be offended it should be called

the "Ethnic, Racial, and Ancestory Fest" AKA as ERA FEST.

You know I don't think its any more cumbersome than Cartoonists League of Washington AKA CLAW and no one seems to have any problems with that.

by Altered Chords on 7/22/2010 @ 3:00pm
sacred ground that.

by Altered Chords on 7/22/2010 @ 3:17pm
The last time I went there was a great Reggae band playing there.

It was led by a Jamaican guitar player/singer of African race, Jamaican ethnicity.

The other members appeared to be as follows:
Caucasian race, jamaican/hippie ethnicity
African race, jamaican ethnicity
Caucasian race, Seattle/Tacoma ethnicity
Caucasian race, weed smokin' ethnicity.

The ethnicity of this musical group was unmistakably Jamaican due to the type of music performed.

They were phenomonal.

by fredo on 7/22/2010 @ 4:25pm
Yes, I attend every year and am happy to witness such a high level of musicianship from groups representing every ethnicity and race. If I see a group of entertainers who are all black I don't mind at all that they only thing they have in common is their race.

And for the record, I don't think African is a race. Black is certainly a race but I don't see African on a list of races provided by the Census Bureau.

by seejane on 7/22/2010 @ 4:25pm
Angry white male or AWM is a term which typifies a white male who holds traditional conservative Christian views, especially in the context of U.S. politics and opposition to racial quotas, political correctness, liberalism, reverse discrimination, and affirmative action and other policies viewed as discriminatory or harmful.

Race or Ethnicity

by Altered Chords on 7/22/2010 @ 5:07pm
Those darn traditional Christian views like "Love your neighbor as yourself"

I can see why such a conservative precept would disturb you.

I do not like angry white men who love their neighbors either. White men should be less angy and hate their neighbors.

by fredo on 7/22/2010 @ 5:45pm
"Angry white males oppose...policies viewed as discriminatory or harmful"

As should all right-thinking adults.

by Crenshaw Sepulveda on 7/22/2010 @ 6:21pm
I wish there was something like a United Cracker College Fund. I'd send them a buck or two, a mind is a terrible thing to waste on bigotry.

by fredo on 7/22/2010 @ 6:35pm
Crenshaw I'd like to introduce you to a cracker who never attended college...

President Abraham Lincoln

by Altered Chords on 7/23/2010 @ 8:22am
Exposure to other cultures/ethnicities is not only beneficial but critical for creative inspiration.

John Coltrane (african american), saxophone player, immersed himself in modern European/American music theory, American blues musical phrasing and then tours India where he immersed himself in "raga's" or Indian scale theory.

He produces what is IMHO the most interesting, moving music I've ever heard (1950 ish to 1965 ish)

I get the impression that many budding songwriter/singer types in America only listen to the genre in which they perform. Rappers that only listen to rappers, country that only listens to country, metal etc.

The resultant music bores me.

At times it angers me.

I hope I do not turn into Fredo.

by fredo on 7/23/2010 @ 8:48am
I hope I do not turn into Fredo AC

I'm sure most people share your hope. LOL

You know chords I'm a saxophone player myself. I played alto sax in my school band for many years. In 1964 I joined the musician's union and began earning spending money. The only reason I liked Bill Clinton is that he played sax and had the ability to get on stage and improvise. And I'm a big supporter of school music programs.
I hope nothing I've posted makes you think I endorse "boring music" I've reviewed the postings and couldn't find anybody who supported boring music. And you know don't need to be the member of a minority group to write wonderful music. Did you know that Handel's Messiah was written by a white person?

by Altered Chords on 7/23/2010 @ 10:23am
Yes - and Gimme Shelter was written by a white person. It is undiputably the best rock tune ever written/perfomed.

by Altered Chords on 7/23/2010 @ 10:40am
Undisputedly. The word undiputably was written by a white person.

by Altered Chords on 7/23/2010 @ 10:41am
And no, nothing you have written leads me to believe you endorse boring music.

Have you been to Sax on 6th ave between 9 and 12 on Tuesday nights?

by fredo on 7/23/2010 @ 11:04am
Hard to get away from the house. I have 2 kids with a 9PM bedtime. But when I was younger I used to love to listen to live music in the clubs. And I didn't care if the performers were white, black or purple. One of Tacoma's most unheralded club musicians is a guy named Jay Mabin. He's a black guy and deserves to be on a national stage.

by Altered Chords on 7/23/2010 @ 11:12am
You'd be able to get out more if you didn't have those darn Chrisian family values that prevent you from leaving your kids alone at home while you go out to drink and play sax at a jazz club.

by Dave_L on 7/23/2010 @ 1:13pm
My friend Fredo, I know you don't get much response from your more insightful topics, but this one is... beneath you. (Even you, lol.) I'm not even going to play. BUT I have to agree, Jay Mabin is great. I used to see him in the glory days of the Victory Music Antique Open Mike, Prosito (that you probably remember) and more recently, sitting in with Maia Santell, who sadly, was asked not to keep her gig at Johnnys Dock. As much as I wish there were more opportunities for live music - especially jazz (preferably with musicians actually being paid for their craft), Chords would agree that there are some opportunities to take the kids. Friday early sets at Sax for example. My daughter's first live music experiences were at Kellys and early sets with Maia Santell, open mikes, piano bars, etc. Especially when seating was conviniently situated to take the kids. That reminds, me, I haven't done that in a while. Thus ends my attempt to help hijack this thread.

by Altered Chords on 7/23/2010 @ 1:45pm
New Venue just opened. Rythm and Brews. Commerce between 9th and 11th. Formerly Juno. Light music (jazz) mon - thurs. Blues fri and sat.

Looks kid friendly.

It's nice to know that Jay is black but what instrument does he play?

Sax: Jam is 9 - 12. Lighten up on the bedtime and your kids will be able to go w/ you.

This thread has officially been hijacked and is now about music in Tacoma.

All your base are belong to us.

by fredo on 7/23/2010 @ 2:03pm
harmonica and bass

by Raido on 7/23/2010 @ 3:24pm
Just piping in to agree that Jay Mabin is a fabulous musician and human being.

by L.S.Erhardt on 7/23/2010 @ 8:36pm
So, while you all debate the merits of Ethnic Fest and the meaning of "race vs ethnicity", I'll be down at Wright Park eating roasted corn, pirogies, gumbo, buying incense and listening to the live music while basking in our glorious summer weather.

by fredo on 7/24/2010 @ 8:17am
Hope nobody with a microphone slips up and uses the term race when they should be using the term ethnicity. That's the ultimate faux pas. Never, never, never use the term race. If George Carlin were alive today he could add race to the 7 words you can never use.

by L.S.Erhardt on 7/24/2010 @ 10:28am
Everyone sign up for the 10K Ethnicity! The winner of this ethnicity will win $300 and have their name in the paper.
All contestants for the 10K ethnicity will need to complete their registration packets and get a bib.

There will also be a 5K ethnicity and a 100 yard diaper dash for the kids under 4.

by Altered Chords on 7/24/2010 @ 1:39pm
I am just glad that no one on this blog uses language considered to be etnicity-ey

Also, being a caucasian of Philadelphian ethnicity, I must admit that I do not care for caucasians of New York City ethnicity. I suppose that makes me an ethnecist?

by fredo on 7/24/2010 @ 1:53pm
great posts thorax and chords. Hey chords if you're really from philadelphia theres a new video you might be interested in "The Art of the Steal."

by Non Sequitur on 7/25/2010 @ 9:49pm
Had a good time. Ate my weight in bbq and watched some belly dancers.

I can now die a happy man.

by Altered Chords on 7/26/2010 @ 1:19pm
Looked at the trailer Fredo. I don't know. I get my fill of art at the frost park chalk drawing competitions of Fridays.

by JumpJivin' on 8/19/2010 @ 1:27pm
I agree with you, Dave! We need more clubs in town that welcome children! I am looking long and hard for them these days!

by Mofo from the Hood on 8/19/2010 @ 5:43pm
I missed this topic's initial posting...I was in one of my white trash phases and without home internet service. Yeah, I said white trash. It's a subcultural distinction. Like "Cadillac drivin' welfare queen." Why would anyone choose to use less descriptive words to distinguish common types of people.

Now those types of people in the context of Tacoma's (Stereotypical) Ethnic Fest would, you might agree, sell food in the following subcultural way:

• White Trash Food Stand •:
Hot Dogs and Pork & Beans cooked in the Pork & Beans can.

• Cadillac Drivin' Welfare Queen Food Stand •:
Chicken Nuggets and Orange Soda Pop.

by Crenshaw Sepulveda on 8/19/2010 @ 7:13pm
Word to the wise on the cooking pork and beans in the can. Don't do this without taking off the lid. And remove the label, that is just unsanitary.

by Altered Chords on 8/20/2010 @ 2:29pm
Larry King has recently coined a brand new term for white trash. It is "non-'n' word people".

Serioulsy, he really said that.

Altered Chords would like to suggest a shortened description for any person that is not "of color": "Colorless".

I feel that the term "white" is too old timey.

by seejane on 8/20/2010 @ 8:02pm
Color-free sounds hoity-toity I guess