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Tacoma Gang Study results just in....conclusions are astounding (click to read)

by fredo
on 3/4/2012 @ 7:59am
The city council was really curious last year about why young men would be attracted to the gang lifestyles so they commissioned a $50K study.

The study results are now available for review and the conclusions are astounding.

The most important finding seems to indicate that future gang bangers are likely to come from Tacoma's poorer neighborhoods and many of the punks will be school dropouts. More shocking is the finding that the gangsters will be attracted to guns and drugs.

That's pretty much it.

Hope the voters are enjoying the profligate way the council is disposing of their tax dollars.   

by JesseHillFan on 3/4/2012 @ 10:45pm
I thought about forming a bicycle gang like an outlaw motorcycle gang but with cyclists.

by cisserosmiley on 3/4/2012 @ 10:48pm
I'm forming a new gang, sign up here

X _____________________________

by Maria on 3/4/2012 @ 11:12pm
Cities need diagnostics just like people or cars. $50k isn't a lot for the first-ever study like this (and the problem's been going on for three decades, so to me it's long overdue).

There was some new and useful info that came from the study (not surprising, since research will usually reveal noteworthy facts):

1) Many kids getting involved in gangs start at the middle school level, not high school. The city, schools & non-profit partners are now working on how to reach kids earlier

2) More kids reported themselves as gang-involved than the percentages reported by arrests and police estimates. This could mean several things, including that more kids are involved in gangs who are currently not committing crimes ("currently") so aren't getting counted in police data.

3) There are significant gaps in data and studies. Maybe no surprise since this is the first in-depth study in 30 years. Knowing that we lack data in specific areas is a good place to start planning future research.

Tacoma has made significant progress in preventing crime from gang-related activity. Spending $50K once every 30 years to see where we're at and what's ahead is a good investment. With law enforcement budget cuts due to the economy, and the potential for gang violence to grow again, this is really a wise course of action. Especially because from time to time, the city needs to modify its comprehensive strategy in dealing with gangs. Times change, so must methods.

I can't imagine a surgeon ever operating on a patient without doing an x-ray or MRI, so I hope the city wouldn't proceed with urban law enforcement planning without getting a handle on what is currently happening. Even if it only reinforces what we already assumed, e.g., the ankle is broken...better to proceed with data on hand than begin slicing haphazardly with a scalpel based on hunches, eh?

by Mofo from the Hood on 3/4/2012 @ 11:34pm

This type of census/management report enables the Department of Corrections and their affiliates to regulate sustainability for the economic well-being of the Justice system.

by Crenshaw Sepulveda on 3/5/2012 @ 12:50am
You can get those same conclusions, fredo, doing a quick Google search "why do kids join gangs in America"    I'm inclined to believe that the city of Tacoma has been ripped off again by yet another consultant.  $50k is peanuts but I can't imagine the consultants did very much work on this.  

by fredo on 3/5/2012 @ 5:15am
I'm not sure the "study" is analogous to a doctor's x ray. It's more like a doctor doing research to find out how many legs a person should have.

Even Deputy Mayor Lonergan said the study "confirmed what we already knew."

Like Crenshaw said, the vast majority of what the study found is stuff that's readily available on the internet through google searches. Also we have a city gang unit in the Police Department.Pretty sure this stuff is common knowledge for them.

by fredo on 3/5/2012 @ 5:19am
Pretty soon we're going to be hearing that the city needs to spend more money on youth programs and youth centers, midnight basketball, taxpayer funded jobs programs for at risk youth... and the taxpayers will be asked to become involved.

After all, the "study" showed that young people in middle school are "at risk."

Anybody who doesn't want to increase their taxes in support must be wanting to have more gang crime in our city.

by cisserosmiley on 3/5/2012 @ 8:13am
Crenshaw is correct. This is run of the mill sociology/criminology. Most ethical researchers would have referred Tacoma to a wealth of info on the topic or designed a study answering the question [ Why does Tacoma loose wealth to surrounding areas?] That would be a pertinent study.

by fredo on 3/5/2012 @ 8:26am

  I challenge Maria or any other study supporter to provide for us just ONE previously unknown factor, revealed in this study, that city officials can use to combat young gangsters. JUST ONE.

by fredo on 3/5/2012 @ 8:39am

Amazon lists 535 books under a search for SOCIOLOGY  of GANGS. Has council already studied this information?

by Crenshaw Sepulveda on 3/5/2012 @ 9:21am
I hope the people that conducted the study at least traveled to Tacoma to collect their check from the city.  I'm sure they really aren't all that swift because I'm sure they could have gotten $250k out of the city for such a critical study.  The more you pay the more it is worth.

by Mofo from the Hood on 3/5/2012 @ 9:42am
I'm sure the Council was motivated by their shared concern for economic development in Tacoma. Councilspeak says Tacoma is open for business for all and to all---Tacoma has a diverse yet equal population. Tacoma is cosmopolitan from the City Council to street gangs. Tacoma is the new Athens, the new Rome, The New Normal!

by fredo on 3/5/2012 @ 9:50am

The 50K youth gang study is the perfect compliment to last year's 50K amber alert study. In case you've forgotten what the city learned from the amber alert study it's this: if you have an amber alert then it should be done right.  That's a valuable conclusion that we should all heed. HAHAHAHHAHA

by fredo on 3/5/2012 @ 9:55am
The previous comment was brought to you by our friends at 

Advil PM 

"The sleep aid so powerful that you won't even be awakened by the blood curdling screams of a child having her head bashed in by a sociopathic deviant."

by cisserosmiley on 3/5/2012 @ 12:44pm
$50,000 could have been used to pay a teen outreach worker

by Mofo from the Hood on 3/5/2012 @ 12:52pm

Tacoma is not gangsterphobic. Gangsters should be free to marry each other and adopt orphan children. There is no correlation between gangster parents and gangster children. There are many gangsters in Tacoma who are highly qualified for the Tacoma City Council. If just one gangster held a seat on the City Council then Tacoma gangsters would finally get the representation they need to bring attention to their cause. Gangsters will gain civil rights to the extent that the public is taught sympathy for them. Gangsters are normal. They deserve the taxpayer's money to pay for entitlement programs including recreation and counseling centers. Gangsters are normal.

by NineInchNachos on 3/5/2012 @ 1:00pm
Maria for Tacoma City Council! 

by NineInchNachos on 3/5/2012 @ 1:09pm
I witnessed a group of teens with nothing better to do than tear up Franklin Park... throwing wood chips and smashing things... playing some kind of racial-themed tag.  "Tag!  You're Mexican, you can't run."   later as we were leaving, an older scruffy looking gentleman showed up and was coaching them in some kind of strange fighting technique...      You don't wanna see what they did to the abandoned RC helicopter! 

by NineInchNachos on 3/5/2012 @ 1:16pm
Jesus Christ you guys,  when you allocate tax dollars you have to have facts... you get facts with studies.  Thank you City Council for only spending 50 and not 250 K on this.    You need data, not fucking google searches or amazon book lists!  
even so, carry on.  

by NineInchNachos on 3/5/2012 @ 1:17pm
also: eat a dick Mofo.

by The Jinxmedic on 3/5/2012 @ 1:19pm
Such hate.

by NineInchNachos on 3/5/2012 @ 1:19pm
hopefully this study will help apply for grants and crap... or whatever.  at any rate it will make us look better than other fuck-wit cities who don't even bother throwing money at the gun hostility exposed youth 

by NineInchNachos on 3/5/2012 @ 1:21pm
mofo is made uncomfortable by TEH GAZE.   how many times does he have to remind us?  Jinx is right.  Stop the Hate!

by NineInchNachos on 3/5/2012 @ 1:28pm
if you want to operate on good ol' common sense  and faith-based assumptions fine.  join Dean Curry's mega-church and sign a petition to keep THE GAZE from getting married in WA. 

by Mofo from the Hood on 3/5/2012 @ 2:23pm
I'm not opposed to taking a census of deviants (assuming gangsters are deviants). Why should the City Council, or anyone, rely on popular culture rather than science to dictate values, norms, and lifestyles? Gangsters in Tacoma, like everywhere, cannot regulate their emotions and behavior. They cannot distinguish needs from appetites. But, there is a 21st Century solution that goes beyond intuition, beyond traditional doctrines of man: The Logic of Bureaucracy guides us to put the rationality of rules above the rationality of ends.

by The Jinxmedic on 3/5/2012 @ 2:42pm
In my comment "such hate", I was referring to the obvious homophobic assaultive hate speech, "eat a dick Mofo". (Such a comment could be prosecuted as a hate crime, if one was so inclined to take offense.)

I thought we were better than this.

by NineInchNachos on 3/5/2012 @ 3:34pm
such tunnel-vision laser fixation on THE GAZE...   maybe his hatred is just a mask? 

by cisserosmiley on 3/5/2012 @ 4:53pm
$50,000 could have been used for a media campaign targeting at risk youth telling them mark lindquist will lock them up for organized crime felonies...crime rate drops...especially if there was a rap song and animal mascot associated with it.

by NineInchNachos on 3/5/2012 @ 4:55pm
get the gates foundation working on the rapping animal mascot ASAP! 

by Crenshaw Sepulveda on 3/5/2012 @ 7:47pm
A half million from the gate foundation could get you something as good as the nra's eddie the eagle.

by L.S.Erhardt on 3/6/2012 @ 3:02am
This just in:

Poverty leads to lives wasted, politicians clueless, police inept and bloggers argue.

More at 11.

by fredo on 3/6/2012 @ 4:25am
This just in:

Poverty leads to convenient failure excuse for lazy people

by cisserosmiley on 3/6/2012 @ 1:12pm
Poverty is a contributing factor of gang involvement.

by Non Sequitur on 3/6/2012 @ 1:21pm
This just in:

Fredo is classist, a part of the problem rather than the solution.

by NineInchNachos on 3/6/2012 @ 1:27pm
what if you just supplied no-fly-zones to the good gangs?

by Non Sequitur on 3/6/2012 @ 1:29pm
That's coming with drones, I'm afraid.

by NineInchNachos on 3/6/2012 @ 1:32pm
middle-school drones?

by low bar on 3/6/2012 @ 1:41pm
tacoma gangsters. ROTFL! like banging over who's oyster beach or doug fir tree line is whos? get the fuck out of here you wannabe gangster idiots. they're more likely to get capped by a cabelas customer here then each other. 

by Non Sequitur on 3/6/2012 @ 1:46pm
@ Low Bar
I dig the new avatar.

by NineInchNachos on 3/6/2012 @ 1:55pm

by low bar on 3/6/2012 @ 8:40pm
aw lawdy. @NS glad to amuse 

by fredo on 3/8/2012 @ 7:45am
I guess it goes without saying but if these youngsters could get some entry level jobs they wouldn't have quite as much reason to be involved with the gangs. Hope the 50K study will include a comprehensive review of the economics of unemployment. IOW: Would kids with a reasonable hope for a part time job be as interested in gangs as kids with no hope for a part time job?

by L.S.Erhardt on 3/8/2012 @ 5:07pm
There isn't much "entry level work" because the economy is down and several million baby boomers who should have retired (but can't) are filling middle and upper-level jobs that they should have vacated do that people in entry-level jobs currently could move up and thus vacate said entry-level jobs for the young people just now entering the workforce.

by fredo on 3/8/2012 @ 6:14pm

  There are multiple reasons why there isn't sufficient entry level work available. Yes, one reason is the recession. Another reason is the minimum wage is TOO HIGH for many employers. I'm an employer myself and the wage rates effect my employment decisions. These gangs really thrive in an environment of hopelessness. People who voted to raise the minimum wage have contributed to the problem. Young men who can't find a job may consider the gang lifestyle.

by Crenshaw Sepulveda on 3/8/2012 @ 6:23pm
Always with the frickin' minimum wage broken record.  TO'T is right most of our problems are due to the geezers not retiring for the last 4 years, imagine what our unemployment rate would be right now if the people that should have retired actually retired.

by NineInchNachos on 3/8/2012 @ 6:34pm
where are those death panels!?

by NineInchNachos on 3/8/2012 @ 6:34pm
Logans Run!

by fredo on 3/8/2012 @ 7:52pm
 "... geezers not retiring for the last 4 years, imagine what our unemployment rate would be right now if the people that should have retired actually retired." crenshaw 

Well, maybe the old geezers can't afford to retire because the unemployed gangsters burglarize their houses and steal their cars.

by Mofo from the Hood on 3/8/2012 @ 8:27pm

The gang lifestyle has been romanticized for decades by the popular media. It's common knowledge that the United States has allowed immigrants from all over the globe and we've taken the bad with the good---Irish gangs, Italian gangs, Jewish gangs, Afro-American gangs, various Latin American gangs and Asian gangs. Yet the media that romanticizes deviant lifestyles might also reeducate and quite possibly neutralize the deviants. Our only hope may be to force these gang members to listen to the effeminate voices of National Public Radio.

by fredo on 3/8/2012 @ 8:46pm

I was noticing that gangsters almost always have a pit bull. Therefore I think maybe pit bulls are causing the gangster problem. If we would pass an ordinance outlawing pit bulls these bad boys would have to roll their escalades with the 24 inch rims on down the road. Worth a try I say. 

by low bar on 3/9/2012 @ 1:48am
i guess it's ok for you to use laura's image fredo, but she's off limits to portland. 

the only issue i have with the 'tacoma' gang lifestyle is it didn't exist until gangster rap in the 90's got copied by wannbe forest logger dumbass wannabes. i think gangster lifestyle aesthetics have their place, but not in tacoma. it's just ridiculous looking. i don't think the OG bloods and crips in LA even bang anymore. It's all crazy latinos. I guess they weren't lying about vatos locos forever. But don't do that shit here, you look stupid and out of place. 50k study says you look retarded.

by cisserosmiley on 3/9/2012 @ 8:47am
Gang activity in Tacoma predates "gangster" rap. There is even some activity in Tacoma documented in 80's "gangster" rap. This is one place where it was real.

by L.S.Erhardt on 3/9/2012 @ 11:07am
Minimum wage has as much to do with the poor job market as "speculators" do to rising gas costs.
They are both bogeymen that have only a minor effect but make good scapegoats.

Society and the economics involving class, race and wealth distribution are a hell of a lot more complicated than blaming the generation that the boomers raised.

by L.S.Erhardt on 3/9/2012 @ 11:15am
I remember a quote from Dr Jason Read:

"People who dismiss the unemployed and dependent as parasites fail to understand economics and parasitism. A successful parasite is one not recognized by it's host, one that can make it's host work for it without appearing as a burden. Such is the ruling class in a capitalist society."

Truth is, if one is unable to or unwilling to recognize the problems in the system, then that person is likely one of the people who benefit from the system as it is... whether they recognize it or not.

by fredo on 3/9/2012 @ 11:15am

I suggested an UNTESTED approach to dealing with unemployed youth and (by extention) to the problem of gang activity. Nobody else made a suggestion.

by cisserosmiley on 3/9/2012 @ 11:29am
I started a gang
Sign up above

by L.S.Erhardt on 3/9/2012 @ 11:33am
I have one too.

A culture-wide return to principles of economic equality.

All this boils down to the misallocation of resources. I'm not saying that earning wealth is bad. Hell, if you can do it legitimately then more power to you!
However, the problems come into play when those with great wealth (legit or not) steer the policy, laws and culture in a direction that only funnels more wealth and power into fewer and fewer hands.
Gang activity is directly related to socioeconomic inequalities. The system has been crafted over 200 years into what we have now. Given the reality of that, I doubt anything can actually fix the system at this point. When society no longer functions, it's Our responsibility to craft one that does. Given the rapid decline of our own right now, it's no wonder why unrest is starting to happen.

by The Jinxmedic on 3/9/2012 @ 11:50am
tH3 Z0m813 Ap0cAlyPs3 is n1gh!!!1!!

by fredo on 3/9/2012 @ 11:54am
I think I can sum up Thorax's recommendation:

Take money away from wealthier people, even those who worked hard to earn it and give it to the poorer people including the welfare abusers and the chronically lazy.

Then our gang problems will go away.

by Maria on 3/9/2012 @ 2:38pm
News Tribune police blogger agrees with some of you guys:

(Yes, I'm providing a link to an article that disagrees with me.)

In any case, I'm interested in what the city comes up with for a strategy to prevent growth of gangs.

by Mofo from the Hood on 3/9/2012 @ 9:25pm

Being poor causes gangs is like saying being ignorant causes Tacoma City Councilmen. 

by NineInchNachos on 3/9/2012 @ 10:26pm
of course you mean council members mofo

by Mofo from the Hood on 3/9/2012 @ 11:41pm

Councilman, Councilmen as in Human, Humen.

by low bar on 3/10/2012 @ 1:06am
well. maybe we need a feed tacoma feed of all the rain forest "gangsters" in town. like a kony 2012. put them all on blast.

by Mofo from the Hood on 3/10/2012 @ 7:26am

T'OT's utopian vision of a state of nature where gangs of men live together by principles of economic equality---One Tacoma City Councilman is currently exploring the legalities of that.

by tacoma1 on 3/10/2012 @ 4:57pm
Given Tacoma's budget woes, I'd rather spend money on combatting gangs than combatting billboards. If the billboards stay up for another year, no ones gonna die. Leaving the gangs alone for another year will not have the same result.

by tacoma1 on 3/10/2012 @ 4:57pm
Given Tacoma's budget woes, I'd rather spend money on combatting gangs than combatting billboards. If the billboards stay up for another year, no ones go

by Mofo from the Hood on 3/11/2012 @ 9:45am
Gangs would not be a controversial public issue if a coalition of "progressives" persuaded lawmakers to reject doctrine which describes man as fundamentally corrupt.

by low bar on 3/11/2012 @ 7:34pm
If gang members were child molesters, everyone would know who they are and where they slept at night.

by Sav253 on 3/29/2012 @ 2:01am
I think it’s rather funny how some of you (Fredo, Cissero, Crenshaw, to name a few) have arrived at a conclusion regarding the effectiveness of Tacoma’s gang study, when the actual study hasn't even been published yet, much less made public.
In fact, the information you've read on the subject likely originated from the Feb 28 City Council Study Session, wherein council members were given the first 60 pages (approx.) of the 361 page report. Yes, they were briefed on the whole study and there was a Q&A portion, but it was far from an in-depth review.
So, how about we reserve being so opinionated until after all the facts are in. I mean come on people… I’m 22 and know better. In the future, try setting a better example for us young folk, if you don’t mind. 

by cisserosmiley on 3/29/2012 @ 3:12am
@Sav253, you have a great point, we should wait to opine on the study. What I am commenting on is called qualitative observation as oposed to quantitative, which the study is. I have lived in central or north Tacoma since the late 70's and there is a fraction of gang activity now. We have to collect data but maybe this issue could have waited considering our economic crisis. It is part of a pattern of questionable spending on "pop" issues that public servants can fall in to. It's our highest duty as citizens to question our government, let's honor Sav253 and be statistically informed as well.

by fredo on 3/29/2012 @ 6:41am
Sav253, you have made a good point and for sure I will be providing the balance of my opinions once the actual study is published. 

I would like to defend my posting by informing you that the council members themselves began providing opinions about the study even though THEY hadn't read it either.  If the council didn't want the public to begin judging their actions and their gang study they could have witheld then entire thing.

by fredo on 3/29/2012 @ 6:47am

I think the gang study was ordered because the city council wants to raise taxes for the purpose of providing "youth services" and the study will somehow make the appeal for higher taxes more legitimate. 

by Crenshaw Sepulveda on 3/29/2012 @ 9:36am
If it weren't for my jumping to conclusions and running off at the mouth I wouldn't get any exercise at all.  That being said I do speak about what I know about and I can assure you that if the City paid only $50k for this report they got a real bargain.  Professional consultants could have gotten at least $250k for the same web based boiler plate.  Is the economy so bad that consultants are lowering their rates just to stay in business and put top ramen on the table?  What a disgrace to consultants by destroying the myth of "the more  you pay the more it is worth".

by The Jinxmedic on 3/29/2012 @ 10:12am
Mmmmm...    ...Top Ramen.

by fredo on 3/29/2012 @ 10:12am
crenshaw that's pretty funny.

I'm going to ask once again and anybody can respond:

Name one important discovery/observation that the report revealed that was not known in advance or that could not have been discovered by a cursory review of google resources. 

Just name ONE.

by Maria on 3/30/2012 @ 1:14pm
The report did reveal one thing: that a municipal government which uses rational methods of inquiry in a frugal manner to assess and consolidate research as a future investment into planning strategies and grant development will discover at least one online critic who compares scientific, statistical analysis to cursory review of google resources.

"It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a conservative, anti-government commentator in possession of
a good computer must be in want of a brain."

(Just kidding!)

I get your point, Fredo. Just remember public entities HAVE TO carefully collect and assemble facts to make future planning decisions and apply for federal money. No one is going to sit down at a council or school board meeting with Google printouts, nor will any pork barrel money come from such lazy inquiry.

History has shown the value of academic, careful research. I can't even imagine life in a place where we assume/observe, then confirm assumptions with unreviewed and untested data.

Sometimes new findings are discovered and other times generally-held opinions are confirmed. Research is still important, as is looking into whether long-held assumptions are actually true. Otherwise, we might still be thinking that flies were spontaneously generated from rotten meat, that it's okay to put butter on burns, and that heart-attack survivors should stay in bed for weeks.

The Internet is a fabulous resource (and there are scholarly articles and public data statistics available, too). Even in the coming digital age, we'll still compile reports that verify and cite reliable sources. That kind of research takes time AND MONEY, because consultants, researchers and statisticians don't work for free.

Curated, edited, true communication is always more effective and valuable. Always.

by fredo on 3/30/2012 @ 1:28pm
 " It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a conservative, anti-government commentator in possession ofa good computer must be in want of a brain." Maria

Where is that truth "universally acknowledged?" Just curious  

by fredo on 3/30/2012 @ 1:34pm
Maria, I didn't say they wouldn't discover something that couldn'tbe found on the internet.

In fact I've CHALLENGED the community to present 1 important NEW finding. 

A lot of the report is just asking teenagers why they like the gang lifestyles. That's just a bunch of anecdotal rhetoric of little value. If a bunch of them say they're bored does that mean the taxpayers have to buy the little troublemakers a new recreation center? 

by Crenshaw Sepulveda on 3/30/2012 @ 3:13pm
When I think about what Maria says I think about this:
“When a woman tells the truth she is creating the possibility for more truth around her.”
― Adrienne Rich

by Maria on 3/30/2012 @ 3:27pm

"No person was ever wise by chance." --Seneca

"It isn't that they can't see the solution. It is that they can't see the problem." -- G.K. Chesterton

"Genuine politics -- even politics worthy of the name -- the only politics I am willing to devote myself to -- is simply a matter of serving those around us: serving the community and serving those who will come after us. Its deepest roots are moral because it is a responsibility expressed through action, to and for the whole." --Vaclav Havel

by fredo on 3/30/2012 @ 3:38pm

Not surprising that Adrienne Rich would prefer the opinions of women, she was a lesbian.

by fredo on 3/30/2012 @ 4:36pm

In an effort to uncover the "truth" let's not forget this truth, the city is facing a $70,000,000+ budget deficit for 2013-2014 biennium.    

by NineInchNachos on 4/2/2012 @ 10:42am
this is why they spend money on studies.  
think of studies as investments.  

by NineInchNachos on 4/2/2012 @ 10:43am
imagine a DOJ grant application with "it's common knowledge. just use google"  
toss that shit in a garbage can.  Oh look Tacoma did a study... send a money bomb!

by fredo on 4/2/2012 @ 11:02am

Nachos you've accidentally discovered Tacoma's purpose in the world. Our purpose is to provide leadership in the new economic engine of consultant studies. The conclusions arrived at will make no difference, as long as the study has lots of pages, lots of anecdotes, lots of charts and tables, a high price tag, and lots of political people types boasting about how smart they are. Pretty soon our city coffers will be overflowing with loot from Prz. Obama's stash. We'll all be rich, rich, I tell you.  

by Crenshaw Sepulveda on 4/2/2012 @ 12:50pm
That's the problem with this study, $50k is chicken feed, you don't get the serious money from the government unless you spend at least $250k for the same study.  No granting agency is going to take you seriously if you only spend $50k on a gang study.    It would also be better if one of the people doing the study actually took a bullet, blood looks great on the grant application.  I guess they'd want a lot more dough if they had to actually take a bullet and not do the study from behind a search engine.

by fredo on 4/2/2012 @ 1:35pm
 " No one is going to sit down at a council or school board meeting with Google printouts, nor will any pork barrel money come from such lazy inquiry. " Maria 

Maria, it sounds like you are guaranteeing that nothing in the final report will have been taken from a google source or other search engine used by other lazy research inquiries. Is that what you are saying? Every sentence in the report is going to be 100% fresh?

by low bar on 4/2/2012 @ 3:05pm
i don't understand what the difference is between gangs in tacoma and gangs elsewhere. just borrow a study and shut them down please. or allow lynch mob justice. gangs will disappear in a year. bye bye mr you thought you were hard but are now stretching from a limb. 

by KevinFreitas on 4/2/2012 @ 4:11pm
According to Wikipedia (source):

Lynching: "Any act of violence inflicted by a mob upon the body of another person which results in the death of the person"

Mob: "the assemblage of two or more persons, without color or authority of law, for the premeditated purpose and with the premeditated intent of committing an act of violence upon the person of another."

I can understand your frustration low bar but I, for one, hope this never becomes anyone's idea of a solution for what ails any part of a civil society. Way to many shades of KKK and other activities in the South during and following the Civil War. Not in my Tacoma!

by low bar on 4/2/2012 @ 10:38pm
you're right. it depends on the authority of a definition. anyways, until gang violence becomes as intolerable as lynch mob violence, the suburbs will just have to put up with it. and everyone knows the suburbs are just a buffer between the haves and have-nots anyways. gangs are just lucky the feds haven't labeled them as terrorists. what happened to saddam again? oh thats right. they stretched a fella. and the world kept turning. the sun came up and life went on. spring is here (almost). seasons come and seasons go whether or not a community takes measures against gang violence into their own hands. being a part of society is a privilege. should you fail meet the standard, as in a standard by which we have all agreed to define our society, much like the definitions in dictionaries and encyclopedias, then basically you should be dispatched with, hunger game style.

by NineInchNachos on 4/2/2012 @ 10:45pm
the drones are coming.  wont be long before the 't' word gets slapped around. 

by cisserosmiley on 4/3/2012 @ 7:36am
I was seriously impeded living in Tacoma as a young man in the eighties. Gangs and violence kept me from visiting parts of my hometown in the dark, changed what clothes I could wear, and basically made my life dangerous. It SUCKED! Now, it's fairly peaceful with some pockets of crime. Lynching now is insanity, there is nothing happening here that isn't happening in every city. I can't even imagine why people even say things like this about the "new" Tacoma.

by Sav253 on 4/6/2012 @ 2:39pm
Here is a link to the completed assessment. There should be a press release shortly. Enjoy everyone =D 

by low bar on 4/6/2012 @ 6:27pm
i was definitely born in the wrong century. everything was fine before the automobile and foreign policy. if we could have just had equal rights for everyone and kept populations down...america of the 19th century would have been as great a place as it will ever be. everything was organic, and there was no such thing as a carbon foot print. but no, people had to keep fucking and immigrating. theres nothing different about the soil here then in europe or russian or any other land mass along the same latitude belt. why the fuck did everyone have to come here? why not just go to russia instead. crimes against a community are the same now as then, only now our prisons are bigger because our stomachs got weaker. 

by fredo on 4/6/2012 @ 6:31pm
Thanks sav253.

don't know if anyone is going to 'enjoy' reading it. The first 120 pages was pretty slow going. I didn't see anything worth $50K so far but maybe they saved the good stuff for the end.

by panachronic on 4/7/2012 @ 11:03pm
"I thought about forming a bicycle gang like an outlaw motorcycle gang but with cyclists."

Too late.  It's already been done.

by fredo on 4/9/2012 @ 8:37am
I was amused by the admission in the gang report that it didn't include much information about the latino gangs because no latino gangsters would participate.

So much for "comprehensive" gang study.

Can we get that $50,000 prorated accordingly?

by cisserosmiley on 4/17/2012 @ 6:51pm
Cha'Ching!!! Tacoma's gang problem study has hit "pop" news cycle on stop, loads of grant money to kick down the 30% increase.

by Maria on 7/25/2012 @ 10:24pm
Careful study of statistics, conditions, facts and factors--then packaging that info into a well-written report--can lead to grant money. (link via Marty Campbell's FB page, thanks)


A $105,000 grant from the Washington State Partnership Council on Juvenile Justice will fund a pilot gang reduction and intervention program from Aug. 1 to June 30, 2013, the city of Tacoma says....

by NineInchNachos on 7/25/2012 @ 11:42pm
studying gets the goods!

by low bar on 7/26/2012 @ 2:19am
make gang parents go to jail too, or at least get the crap fined out of them:) every gang member started as an egg and a sperm cell. police shouldn't have to deal with non parents polluting society with their useless brood;) study says: you're child gets sent to jail or juvy, you're going to pay for their stay there. you're going to pay for their food. you're going to pay for everything. and then with all the taxes we save from running the rehab, we can channel all that revenue in the education system. according to quantum physics there is a reality where this nation's department of education receives more funds then the department of defense. but i'm glad its not a reality here or we'd be bored out of our highly evolved minds. like what else is there to do besides fuck each other over in society?

by fredo on 7/26/2012 @ 7:29am
  "A $105,000 grant from the Washington State Partnership Council on Juvenile Justice will fund a pilot gang reduction and intervention program from Aug. 1 to June 30, 2013, the city of Tacoma says...." maria 

Wow maria, that sounds pretty good but....whoops there's a slight problem.

The Washington State Partnership Council on Juvenile Justice is just a fancy way of saying DSHS. The grant money is coming from the state taxpayers!

But surely the grant money is going into our general fund to repay us for the original research costs....whoops, I'm afraid not. It's going to be divided among 4 local non-profits. The city taxpayers lost $50K and the state taxpayers lost $100K.

I hope you'll forgive me if I describe this as a lose lose situation. 

by cisserosmiley on 7/26/2012 @ 7:45am
Seems inefficient

by Crenshaw Sepulveda on 7/26/2012 @ 9:33am
I would like to know what Gritz the cat, as a spokesman for the city, has to say about this subject.  I don't know what they are paying Gritz, but I understand it rhymes with "$50,000".  I can see it now, Gritz the gang prevention cat.

by gritz thekat on 7/26/2012 @ 9:47am
If the Mercedes dealer comes through Gritz will drive the new G.A.R.E. car to all grade schools and hand out G.A.R.E. tee shirts. That should stop gangs in Tacoma!

by fredo on 7/26/2012 @ 11:05am
Young people need jobs.

You can funnel hundreds of thousands of dollars down a bureaucratic latrine hole all day long and it isn't going make any measurable effect on crime rates.

The youth are going to hold down jobs OR they're going to spend their free time hanging with the boyz in the 'hood.

It's time to get real.

by Crenshaw Sepulveda on 7/26/2012 @ 1:54pm
Yes, the young people really need jobs.  The "job creators" have had tax breaks for ten years.  Where are all the jobs these "job creators" are creating.  Are you saying the government should be taxing the "job creators" so that there is money to be hiring these young people on various government programs?  I'd rather see the money going into studies and grants actually go into jobs for our young people.  Seems like the "job creators" are sleeping on the job.

by fredo on 7/26/2012 @ 2:00pm
Obviously the incentives for creating jobs are not sufficient to outweigh the very significant costs for creating and maintaining employment increases.

The most powerful incentive for creating jobs imo would be for the government to waive enforcement of the minimum wage law. I haven't heard about that particular incentive, have you?

Regarding the "job creators," that could be anybody including you crenshaw. How many jobs have you created? The same tax law that applies to the job creators you have sneered at apply to you as well. Are you doing your part or are you sleeping on the job? 

It seems to me that folks on the sidelines who aren't creating jobs under any circumstance should withold their mostly uninformed opinions about job creation.

by low bar on 7/26/2012 @ 2:15pm
nice fredo! your solution is to let employers pay people less then 9 dollars an hour! more evidence that you think gas only costs 25ct a gallon and bob hope is the funniest man in america!!! woooooooooo. 

by Crenshaw Sepulveda on 7/26/2012 @ 2:15pm
Yes I am doing my part.  I've lost count of the number of people that have jobs today as the result of my efforts.  Thanks for asking.  Oh, none of them make minimum wage.

by low bar on 7/26/2012 @ 2:18pm
fredo, why don't you just say to the people around you, lets even forget they are your fellow americans, that you don't give two shits about their standard of living. 

fredo, just say it, just say you are a bad person. Own it. 

by fredo on 7/26/2012 @ 2:29pm
  "I've lost count of the number of people that have jobs today as the result of my efforts" crenshaw

why then are you keeping your considerable expertise in job creation a secret? 

what is it the "job creators" aren't doing that you think they should do, and why aren't you doing more of it yourself? 

by NineInchNachos on 7/26/2012 @ 2:32pm
more murals!

by fredo on 7/26/2012 @ 2:33pm

My plan would raise the standard of living for folks who can't find work, low bar. Why don't you just admit that you have contempt for the poorest people? Every time I reach out to help the poor people you're right there to lash out with your spirit of hatred. Sad really. 

by low bar on 7/26/2012 @ 2:36pm
How can I have contempt for the poor? I bleed the colors of the flag and I oppose the GOP. Your plans and the plans of the GOP are a cancer eating away at our country. 

by NineInchNachos on 7/26/2012 @ 2:40pm

by fredo on 7/26/2012 @ 2:43pm
I don't know WHY you have contempt for the poor low bar, you just do.

If an unemployed person wants to make a few bucks and offers to work for $5 an hour and would be happy to work for $5 you would prevent him from doing so. Apparently your notion of fairness trumps other peoples notions.

by low bar on 7/26/2012 @ 2:54pm
A gang member is going to work for $5 an hour. How is that person going to pay for the gas to even get to work. I mean, what fucking planet are you from fredo? hahahahahaha

The gang member will be working just to make gas money to get to work just to make more gas money. You just don't have a firm grasp on reality fredo. You just don't. I think perhaps maybe you were dropped as a baby. It makes you incapable of perception of time or something, like you must think history never happened. 

Well for the rest of us who didn't have spina bifida of the soul, heres a nice piece of history on how and why the government of our great nation made minimum wage a law:)

"From 1973 to 2007, as the minimum wage fell 22% in real dollars, domestic corporate profits jumped more than 50%—bloating the gap between rich and poor"

Yes fredo, lowering the minimum wage is not having contempt for the poor. Can someone please ban fredo for spreading falsehoods? Thanks:),917...

by fredo on 7/26/2012 @ 3:11pm
what does the price of gas have to do with anything? maybe the prospective worker and the prospective employer are next door neighbors. Will the worker really need to buy gas to get to work? Maybe something happened to you when you were born like you were breeched and they decided to throw out the baby and keep the placenta and raise it as if it were  a baby. Sad really. 

You still haven't explained low bar, how an out-of-work person will lower his standard of living if he accepts a job that pays less than minimum wage. Please explain this before we go any further. 

by Cheechmo on 7/26/2012 @ 3:12pm
In fredopia, once everybody is only making 4.50/hr, the oil/gas companies will decide to drop prices to reasonable levels, causing a cascade of falling prices for all goods and services!

by fredo on 7/26/2012 @ 3:14pm

  Thats for sure cheech. If merchants see that folks are making somewhat less money they would adjust their prices accordingly.

by low bar on 7/26/2012 @ 3:21pm
fredo, please explain why you are talking about lowering the minimum wage ON PEOPLE ALREADY EMPLOYED BEFORE WE GO ANY FURTHER YOU BOLD FACED PSYCHOPATH 

maybe? you say maybe? maybe the world you see isn't the same the rest of us see....maybe its time for fredo to go to western state. 

merchants are going to adjust prices. yes thats happened before historically. the minimum wage has been dropping since the 70's and gas has been going up. i live in a worm hole with complete morons.

by Crenshaw Sepulveda on 7/26/2012 @ 3:28pm
where  is the "like" button?  "maybe its time for fredo to go to western state. "

by low bar on 7/26/2012 @ 3:34pm
don't get mad fredo. just get on the right side of history.

by Maria on 7/26/2012 @ 3:43pm
The urban gang problem isn't just one of jobs or even academic research. As Tacoma has already been addressing it for many years, it's a much more comprehensive problem.

Getting families out of poverty, i.e., having a climate of well-paying jobs that can support families above the poverty line, is definitely one factor.

Since many of these gang members are in middle school or high school--having them get jobs is actually not a goal. The best thing for them is to stay in school and graduate. Several of these non-profits receiving money provide mentors and tutoring, plus family support.

The fact that the money comes from tax payers doesn't bother me. There are no robot overlords harvesting prosperatonium off asteroids to hand out grants. All cash going to any cause comes from workers, benefactors or tax payers.

The cost of having even one less gang member incarcerated for a felony crime will more than offset this investment. I think it's a good cautious investment as a pilot program.

by fredo on 7/26/2012 @ 3:55pm
  "The cost of having even one less gang member incarcerated for a felony crime will more than offset this investment." maria

Sounds like you want a tangible benefit,  Maria. Me too!

How are you going to determine if the program results in one less gang member incarcerated for a felony crime? that sounds like an unmeasurable goal.

by L.S.Erhardt on 7/26/2012 @ 3:57pm
As one who works in the oil industry, I can confirm that the smaller oil companies skate on thin ice. They have to keep their margins low to compete with the big boys.

The big boys (Shell, Conoco-Phillips, BP) have HUGE margins because they also are exploratory companies. That means they process the oil they pump out of the ground. They do not pay the market price for crude.

That being said, Big Oil really doesn't give a fuck about how much you make. If the average wage dropped to the Fredopian ideal of $4.50/hr, a gallon of fuel will just end up costing nearly all of an hour's pay rather than just most of said hour. If you can't afford their gas, there are 2,500,000,000 people in India and China who will buy it.

There is no "free market". It's a lie engineered to make people OK with the economic elite doing whatever they want.

by fredo on 7/26/2012 @ 4:04pm
Maria, I never said that lack of jobs was the only condition which might be related to gang involvement. It's one piece of the puzzle.

Your suggestion that boys in high school shouldn't have jobs is absurd. That's the age where they should be doing part time jobs and beginning to see themselves employed and while they can still strive to excell in school.

by fredo on 7/26/2012 @ 4:11pm
  "If the average wage dropped to the Fredopian ideal of $4.50/hr, a gallon of fuel will just end up costing nearly all of an hour's pay rather than just most of said hour. " thorax

I never indicated that oil companies would give folks making less money a break. I specifically said MERCHANTS. Please explain how a person making $4.50 per hour would have more difficulty buying a tank of gas than a person who didn't have a job. Please explain this implausibility.

by Maria on 7/26/2012 @ 4:13pm
Fredo: How are you going to determine if the program results in one less gang member incarcerated for a felony crime? that sounds like an unmeasurable

It's not a measurable goal. I'm sure those non-profits have some measurable goals (tutoring a certain number of kids, providing well-attended after-school events that keep kids off the streets, showing progress on report cards, building self-esteem through positive activities, etc).

The risk factors for adult incarceration include delinquency, not graduating, mental health issues, poverty, abuse and drug use. Since these groups help tackle some of those issues--and can be pipelines to get kids intervention and social services--then we as a community are working towards reducing incarceration risk factors.

There is no guarantee. We are talking about human beings, not lab rats or a chemical experiment here.

by Maria on 7/26/2012 @ 4:18pm
Fredo, I agree about jobs. A good part-time job can be a positive experience. There are a lot of successful people who were mentored by their first boss and had a person who cared for them, counseled them, held them accountable, etc.

Having a paycheck is also a crime-deterrent since it allows kids to have spending money and the ability to participate in fun activities, plus there's less unsupervised free time.

So yes, for some kids, they can balance school and work. It will help them find better jobs because they build up skills and work experience.

But, there are a lot of kids who are barely making it in school, though. The kids most at risk for incarceration are often in this category. They need lots of time and support to bring their grades up and improve their success rate before they can tackle another activity.

by fredo on 7/26/2012 @ 4:21pm
  "there is no guarantee" maria

well, there is one guarantee. the taxpayers are definitely going to spend $155,000 

by Maria on 7/26/2012 @ 4:30pm
Seeing as on July 1, we just took back $14 million a year in first mortgage interest deductions we were granting to out-of-state banks (they were not having to pay B & O tax), I'm not the least bit bothered by spending $155,000 on our local kids, when we've been granting large corporations this kind of generous loophole since the 1980's.

I'm all for being as generous with the vulnerable youngsters of the next generation as we were with the suited CEO's in Manhattan. I'd rather the money go to after school activities than for vacation homes in Aspen.


Elimination of First Mortgage Interest Deduction for Multi-State Banks

Effective July 1, 2012, the state will eliminate the B&O tax
deduction for first mortgage interest received by banks and their affiliates that are "located in more than ten states."  See ESB
6635 § 101.  The state estimates that it will raise $14.5 million in fiscal year 2013 and $32.4 million in the 2013-2015 biennium, although the multi-state limitation may be subject to constitutional

by fredo on 7/26/2012 @ 4:40pm
  So if the banks which are going to be paying the state of Washington $14M decide to raise the mortgage interest rates  in Washington state a half point to make up for this loss of $14M and this disqualifies some low income folks from owning their own homes you'll be perfectly OK with that? Now the youth we are trying to save will end up living in rental housing ...or worse. That won't prevent gang  lifestyles but rather exacerbate them.

Oh well, no good deed goes unpunished.

by low bar on 7/26/2012 @ 5:32pm
"to make up for this loss of $14M"

I'm sorry.... a loss? HAHAHAHAHA

Actually is not funny. This loss of humanity is causing real world problems. I mean I'm absolutely at a loss when faced with falsehood perpetrating social psychopaths. 

fredo, i crown you king troll. seriously, i don't think i could wind liberals, or not greedy people, up any better then your consistent defense of moral diarrhea. 

by fredo on 7/26/2012 @ 5:39pm

by liberals, do you mean the loose affiliation of folks who are able to use the job killing minimum wage law and the promise of entitlements  as  tools to keep minorities and other disenfranchised poor folks in their place?  that's a group I want no affiliation with. Poor folks should have a chance at a decent lifestyle.

by low bar on 7/26/2012 @ 5:50pm
yes we know fredo, you're a maniac.

so exhausting. 

by NineInchNachos on 7/26/2012 @ 8:06pm
greatest tread of all time.

by Cheechmo on 7/26/2012 @ 9:59pm
"So if the banks which are going to be paying the state of Washington $14M decide to raise the mortgage interest rates  in Washington state a half point to make up for this loss of $14M and this disqualifies some low income folks from owning their own homes you'll be perfectly OK with that?"

Screw the mega-banks, bank local!

by Crenshaw Sepulveda on 7/26/2012 @ 11:35pm
I'm sure Fredo believes that the slave owners were doing the slaves a favor, keeping them fed, housed, and employed along with taking them out of those nasty jungles in Africa.  I'm certain Fredo would not know logic if it bit him on the butt.

by fredo on 7/27/2012 @ 7:40am
@cheech, the folks in my example were only qualified for a mortgage at a major bank. many times low income folks have to shop around to find a bank which will even consider their app.

@crenshaw, I try to be logical. please copy and paste something i wrote which was illogical. no need to make up stuff about the jungles of africa. if I'm as illogical as you say you should be able to provide an example.

by Cheechmo on 7/27/2012 @ 10:42am
Well then, let's be real about the situation. If only a mega-bank will give you a mortgage, and at a super-high interest rate, you probably should not be buying a house. Plain and simple. That was a major reason why we had a housing collapse in the first place.

by fredo on 7/27/2012 @ 11:04am
cheechmo, I didn't say anything about a "super-high" interest rate. I said perhaps the mega banks would raise their mortgage interest rates by a half point to recover the $14M the state of Washington intends to charge them.  

If the low income people don't borrow the mortgage money enabling the institutions to recover the $14m then the mega banks will increase their monthly checking fees, their overdraft fees, their ATM fees, or their debit fees. I don't see how that would be benefiicial to Washingtonians, but maybe you do.   

by low bar on 7/27/2012 @ 3:27pm
it doesn't matter how much evidence or how logical you argue against a conservative.....when you've obviously proven them in the wrong they just act like they don't know what you're talking about. Or they do the bait and switch thing that fredo constantly does. Dodge the issues etc. Its majorly exhausting and its the number one reason congress doesn't work.

"enabling the institutions" - fredo

this it the conservative modus operandi. notice how it comes out in fredo's written mannerism.

the goal is not to change or amend or regulate the institutions, but rather to enable them. In other words, let the status quo be.

There is a cancer in our government. Its plain as daylight.

by fredo on 7/27/2012 @ 3:35pm

If you are ever able to prove me wrong I will so inform you.

by low bar on 7/27/2012 @ 3:41pm

by Crenshaw Sepulveda on 7/27/2012 @ 4:58pm
Really, does anyone actually take fredo seriously around here?

by fredo on 7/27/2012 @ 5:25pm

  @crenshaw, when are you going to post an example of an illogical comment that I made? or is your specialty just name calling?

by low bar on 7/27/2012 @ 6:31pm
like i said, when confronted with blinding evidence, conservatives will act like they don't know what you're talking about. pretending to be ignorant is just one other way of manipulating the truth. willful ignorance, it's the vice of the black cantankerous conservative heart. 

by fredo on 7/27/2012 @ 6:48pm
  when confronted with blinding evidence liberals will engage in name calling and illogical fallacies and they frequently repeat themselves like old fools.

when they start a statement with "like I said,"  that's a dead giveaway.

Sad really.

by low bar on 7/27/2012 @ 7:18pm
not sadder then the GOP causing the United State of America to lose it's AAA credit rating FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HISTORY, and then acting all willfully ignorant about it.

like i said, there is a cancer in our government. a willfully ignorant cancer. a real world problem causing cancer. and the longer that cancer has a voice, the more the United States of America will suffer. Men, women and children will suffer. Not like in the movies suffer, real actual suffering.

by Crenshaw Sepulveda on 7/27/2012 @ 8:20pm
fredo, i would love to find specific quotes but you stuff is so mind numbing to reread that i can not subject myself to that experience at this time. i have more important thing to do right now like picking up dog poop in the back yard. come to think of it, rereading you stuff is not dissimilar.

by Crenshaw Sepulveda on 7/27/2012 @ 8:20pm
fredo, i would love to find specific quotes but you stuff is so mind numbing to reread that i can not subject myself to that experience at this time. i have more important thing to do right now like picking up dog poop in the back yard. come to think of it, rereading you stuff is not dissimilar.

by fredo on 7/27/2012 @ 9:17pm

  reading my comments is "mind numbing" to you...yet you comment incessantly about my postings.  

by Crenshaw Sepulveda on 7/27/2012 @ 9:44pm
It is the "rereading" that is mind numbing.  I see you like to quote like the Romney campaign.  Typical.  copy and paste is easy.

by Crenshaw Sepulveda on 7/27/2012 @ 9:44pm
It is the "rereading" that is mind numbing.  I see you like to quote like the Romney campaign.  Typical.  copy and paste is easy.

by fredo on 7/27/2012 @ 10:09pm
I see. Reading my comments and providing commentary on them  is of great interest to you but rereading them is mind numbing. That doesn't make sense.  

For the record, you claimed I made an illogical comment, so why didn't you just copy/paste it as evidence in the first place so you wouldn't be asked to reread it which would numb your mind ?  

by fredo on 10/3/2012 @ 6:08am
News today that Tacoma plans to cut quite a few police positions in the upcoming (2013-2014) biennium.

I wonder what effect that will have on Tacoma's attempt to reign in gang violence. Oh...that sounds like something that should be studied at the cost of at least $50,000 more tax dollars.

And what about the youth who would prefer to hang out at the library and study calculus, etc.? Nope the proposed budget will be cutting service hours at the library.

Hope everyone is enjoying their liberal elected Tacoma city council. Oh I forgot...all our problems were created by George W. Bush and OPEC.

At least Fey and Walker have seen the writing on the wall. Even though their terms on the council haven't expired they are leaving like rats on a sinking ship.

by tacoma_1 on 10/3/2012 @ 6:59am
At least u know what caused all of the worlds problems. That's the first step in seeking the solution.