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TacomaArt listserv - Who can advertise what?
 by KevinFreitas on 12/12/2007 @ 11:04am |
Warren of the Tacoma Art Supply posted a list of specials to the art listserv the other day and has received some flack for it. So, with all the other artists and venues posting info about shows that sometimes cost money and art that is for sale, should an art supply company be able to do the same?
Here's Warren's response on the listserv: * * * Ah, mmmm, oh,... It's just for Tacoma artists... These are.. close out items I have put up. Yeah, that's it! No, they are almost about to be future... used items, Yeah that's better!. Ok now you got me going. Sorry, sorry everyone, I am going to let loose a little. Does anyone else think I am UNETHICAL? Sorry not to have known that I can’t post my specials, Oops I mean my close out items, along with the others. Anyone? ...Bueller? ...Bueller? Are these other postings appropriate? For Profit Gallery Openings - Hi Peter & Sean! Spencer Tunick Photo Ops (cool weird but appropriate?) - Hi Lynn For Profit Blown Glass Studio Sales - Hi Mark and Jeannine! For Profit Artists closing down their studio sales - Hi... I mean bye... Tacoma ART AT WORK Feedback Survey! - (Funny, but appropriate? Ethical?) Santa and the Air Pirates (Funny, but Eeew..) - Hi RR! Oh here's another............................. HUGE BLOWN GLASS SALE!! Sat Dec 8th and Sun Dec 9th 8am-4pm If I make my shop into a Non Profit and try to pay myself some day far in the future (that’d be nice) can I still post here? If I take donations of used art supplies or clothes can I post here? In every ad I have tried to put interesting local color, questions of the day, art shows on wall here... I hope. It's not like I post here everyday. It's not like I haven't contributed just about everywhere I can. It's not like I haven't spent a fortune on advertising with every paper, only to have people tell me they didn't know I was here. And then they seem mad at me because they didn’t know. You didn't know there was an art store downtown either, did you? Now you’re angry? To show my good will, I have been offering these since I’ve opened….. Seniors get 15% OFF Everyday! Not just 10% on Tuesday Military 15% OFF SOTA Students get 15% OFF (with ID or if I know them) (Oh I’ve been giving this to others when they’ve asked.) Local Art Leagues and Clubs 15% OFF (with club ID) TAFA students 15% OFF Tacoma Mamas get 15% OFF (You know what to say) Tacoma Art Place members get 15% OFF (with Member card) TAM members now get 15% off (show member card) *NEWEST ONE Everyone should be a TAM member!!! Am I retarded to give all these discounts? Let me know! ............................................................ The goal of Tacoma ART Supply is to support Tacoma & South Sound artists with the best variety and best prices for professional quality art materials. All of this just to save you the 70 mile round trip to Seattle. But, I will stop promoting the arts if you think I should? I'll stop working 16 hours a day 7 days a week, trying to make this shop, if it doesn't matter. Was this too much? Sorry if embarrassed anyone. Sorry if you feel embarrassed by me. Oh well, I'll learn the hard way. Should this be my last post? Anyone? Warren * * * Warren: If the listserv is going to have ambiguous rules and regulations, feel free to drop any specials here in the FT Forums in the Business Promos & Announcements area. |
 by zastica on 12/12/2007 @ 11:18am | I fully support what Warren is doing, and I don't think that those posts are an abuse of the listserve in any way. He's supporting what us artists are doing, and we can use lots of support.
I want to know how that's an unethical use of the list. |
 by NineInchNachos on 12/12/2007 @ 12:39pm | So there are a few things going on here we should talk about.
1. People always point to my posts as examples of questionable material to post. And although I do in fact get certain privileges alloted to me in relation to the list-serve others of which are not privy to because I am related to Julie Anderson (the Tacoma Arts Commission's biggest champion), I feel it is unfair to have my work as such used as a political football. 2. The rules are squishy on purpose which fits with the Cover Your Ass (C.Y.A.) security mentality made so popular after 9/11. This frees the people in authority from going into to much detail about what exactly folks have done wrong... simply explaining "you broke the rules, you're gone" 3. Warren operates the only local Art Store in Tacoma we should all cut the dude some slack. 4. The Tacoma Arts Commission could care less Mostly when the list serve administrator calls something it is because somebody else complained or has made a threat. The people complaining are ART POSERS and their complaints/objections are like sweet sweet candy to REAL ARTISTS who exist to provoke emotional experiences in NORMAL CIVILIANS. ART POSERS are artist "wanabees" who only end up making things miserable for everyone. You can recognize an ART POSER by their upper-middleclass status, snooty upturned noses, lame-o poetry leaflets, strait-from-the-tube abstract painting clones, and or watercolor lighthouses. ON AN interesting philosophical note: ART POSERS and REAL ARTISTS can not each exist without the other as one provides the contrast needed for the other to be observed. god bless |
by NineInchNachos on 12/12/2007 @ 12:50pm | reading the warren email the reader may have questioned the ethical nature of this line:
"Am I retarded to give all these discounts? Let me know!" For anyone working with special needs children/folks this is likely to be as offensive as this line to a gay person: "Am I gay to give all these discounts? Let me know!" |
 by PearlZenith on 12/12/2007 @ 1:16pm | I sure don't see anything unethical, except perhaps a little word choice, but that's not something to flog a guy over.
I really like seeing Warren's posts to the listserve, because they help remind people that there's a local guy providing great art supplies who will answer your questions as best he can, when you go in and want to try something new, or just want to chat. The same people who complain about his posts will likely complain if he goes out of business, and they have no choice but to go to chain stores that suck up our money and funnel it back to central headquarters, and where the employees don't know jack about what they're selling, or even care. |
by Paula TJ on 12/12/2007 @ 1:23pm | Some people have way too much time on their hands Warren. Don't change a thing. If Tacoma List Serve is for Artists, than why wouldn't it be nice to let them know about specials that may help them create their art. anyway, this is so much BS to me. Whatevr small thinker(s) that started this as an issue , is bound to turn up squeaking somewhere else at another time, and we should do our best to give them no power. What a bunch of crap to spend time on. I for one want to thank you warren for assisitng the people that the list serve is for, with the info you offer. |
 by jenyum on 12/12/2007 @ 1:39pm | Vague rules are bad, especially when conversation about them is not allowed.
There are a lot of vague rules (more like pronouncements) like this regarding "commercial activity" around teh interwebs, and I always wonder why people think they can just make up a rule like that off the top of their heads and there won't be any questions about it, when there are volumes and volumes of law books devoted to the effort to define these terms. Read the fine print on a creative commons license (an attempt to tackle these issues in a sensible way) and you'll get a sense of just how complex the issue is. But actually, I don't think there's any rule I've ever seen vague or otherwise about commercial activity on the listserv, just that posts be directly related to the arts in some fashion, which Tacoma Art Supply is. I've been accused of being "too commercial" because I write about businesses for no money, usually by people who spend their days surfing the web on their employer's dime, so I take it with a grain of salt and move on. We have to shift the opinion of the average clueless hipster Tacoman from "commercial is bad" to "Maybe I'll try to get that locally," since capitalism shows no signs of going away tomorrow. |
by beerBoy on 12/12/2007 @ 1:50pm | Warren, as they say in the homebrew circles, "relax, don't worry, have a homebrew".
Seriously - there are a bunch of poseurs here who think that being an artist means living bohemian and has nothing to do with business. They can just eat and drink for free at art parties and art openings and never actually support the artists by putting some cash down to purchase their work/services in the art field. Keep posting about your shop. I, as a professional in the arts, appreciate getting your updates. Ignore the wankers - they never buy anything anyway. |
by dorkbot Tacoma on 12/12/2007 @ 2:33pm | I love seeing your ads, Warren, because I need art supplies! I think Tacoma is blessed with a great supply store, and the majority are happy to hear about any deals or incentives that'll get us down there spending our money LOCALLY.
Laura |
 by Warren on 12/12/2007 @ 3:16pm | I was going to say "Am I stupid..?" but I didn't want to upset any stupid people. My gay friends wouldn't mind if said they were "gay". They would respond with "...AND light hearted!" :)
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 by Erik on 12/12/2007 @ 3:24pm | You might try weaving your sales in with art in your shop to make it fit in the list serve a bit more. Obtain a piece of alternative art. Take a picture of it and then mention....by the way..about your supplies as well.
Check out the look and feel of other "artist" posts. If RR can do it with Santa stories, you can do it with art supplies. |
by oh people please on 12/12/2007 @ 3:55pm | I see so much crap on it sometimes I see who the sender was & don't even bother reading it.
Chruches are advertising, the City of Kent, some park in Eatonville, Horseman Club out in Spanaway - I see it all. Even R Andersons Debbie Deeble! I don't know Warren but really don't see where he has done anything wrong at all! However I feel that some people just have to much time on their hands and have to complain and bitch, because they need to get a life! |
by NineInchNachos on 12/12/2007 @ 4:48pm | Mr. Warren do you sell any holiday gift cards to your fine store?
Also if people insist on using my posts as fodder in their comments, with respect to the doreen deeble episode... I am just as much a victim as anybody. |
by Twister Harris on 12/13/2007 @ 7:30pm | I would MUCH rather receive word on what's happening from an Indie art store than more self-promotion by RR.
But even he's still allowed to promote himself on the serv, as the rest of us do. Ads for our art shows or our projects are still ads. Even if we don't make a financial gain off a specific project. Besides, we should be celebrating the fact there's finally a Tacoma alternative to Michaels. Keep posting, Warren. |
 by jcbetty on 12/14/2007 @ 9:20am | I heart warren, I heart what he does, I heart indie. the last post made me wonder about something, though-- if Warren posts sales, can Michaels? And JoAnn? --is the listserv trying to keep the site from becoming that kind of commercial? I don't know, I'm just wondering. For myself, I don't think what's happening is wrong at all, I think I find the Kent/horsemen/church posts more... not offensive, but moderately annoying.
And yet, I think it's all about coexistence, and discourse, and an awareness of what's going on that goes outside of the standard informational sphere of newsprint, web, and blog stuff; I think there are mild parameters set to keep the listserv from becoming yet another spam like I get daily from Nordstrom and Potterr Barn and Self and gap... I feel, personally, like if it's independent and locally based, good on ya'. and so you have my incoherently-structured two cents... |
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